Poor Sounds for E String from 4003 - sound clip...

[johnallg]

Sebastian, I do hear a bit less output on the lowest notes. I would look at the alignment of the pickup poles to the strings. The bridge pickup poles are offset a tad and may be mounted backwards and not under the strings squarely. I would also slacken the E string enough to be able to rotate the ball end at the tailpiece and make sure there is no twist along the string. Is the E string side of the bridge higher than the G string side? Have you tried to raise the pole screw for the E string (last resort for me)? Is the E string really high at the nut?

[Tarrbot]

One thing I forgot to ask... how was this recorded? Sounds like it's through a mic'd amp.

I've noticed that with my own amp (a wimpy little acoustic B20) that the Ric sounds horrible on the B and E strings. Horrible.

The bass is set up perfectly.

How do I know this? I have taken the bass to play on other amps and it smokes...

Let me reiterate that point. It SMOKES!!!

On a Markbass amp, it sounds like Heaven has opened up and Thor has decided to go bowling and rains bolts down on anyone who comes near.

It sounds this way on other amps too.

In my case, it's the amp--which is why I need to get a new one.

Have you tried how it sounds on another amp?

[cassius987]

Maybe it is my imagination - does anyone feel the E string is weaker on that clip? The second riff (Psycho Killer) feels weaker to me - less definition in the notes and generally not as punchy?

If you are having a problem it is YOUR RIGHT to voice what is going on. No one here can tell you that you are just making it up, etc., even people like me who are somewhat in disbelief. But only you have direct access so it's your judgement that counts. If you have a weak E going on... it is what it is. Now it's our job to help you fix it, not to criticize you for bringing it up. So please don't think that's the situation.

Here's my 2 cents: it is either the setup, something about your technique, or your individual bass. Either that or I got three Ric basses that have a better E response than the average Fender*, and meanwhile most folks got weak ones. But that doesn't make any sense to me at all so I'm inclined to believe there is the possibility of a lemon, bad technique, and of course a poor setup. It took me many years to recognize a good setup and I'm still learning.

I know it's easy to say "My technique is fine" but the truth is that probably >90% of bass players have a technique that lacks some of the refinements necessary for good tone. I consider myself very lucky when I find a new technique that enhances my tone (on any instrument), and I have to admit my technique is only moderately good at best. Right-hand technique is especially neglected. While you evaluate your bass, evaluate yourself as well.

I wish you nothing but the best and if I could look at your bass I'd be glad to... and someone here from your area will surely find this and help you, just like Scott Pope helped me with my first Ric--it had problems too! But now it's flawless.

Just do me one favor, though, regarding the weak E situation. Don't go around saying "It's a Ric thing," because it's not! That's what irritates me; not you positing the idea as a question but the larger group of people that have ingrained that idea. It's unfortunate that perhaps there are lemons that add fuel to the fire but I can speak from experience, the weak E is not an actual Ric trait.



*Feel free to throw in my friend Derek's grayglo 4003, Scott Pope's delicious 4002, and the FG 4004 I demoed that someone here now owns. None had a weak E. That's 6 out of 6 for "strong E"...


P.S.: I have to comment on former forumite and good friend DCR (Dan) who did in fact have two legit cases of weak E that he documented with recordings. I say this only to show that I acknowledge that the problem is real. I just wish I knew why exactly it comes up so much and I wish there was a stock answer to truly fix it. But it seems that a lot of people, like Dan, can't find a way around it and I acknowledge the deep frustration that must bring with it.

[rickenbrother]

Two things that I've said before that I'll say again...

Some amps are not good at producing the low end of a 4001/4003.

I wouldn't expect anyone that lives in my area to ship me a bass to set up, but anyone in my area who has this E string problem, no matter what they do, can bring their bass to me to set up. My fee to the first guy? YOU hold/operate the video camera.

I've noticed that with my own amp (a wimpy little acoustic B20) that the Ric sounds horrible on the B and E strings.

When I have my 4003S/5 plugged into my Gallien-Krueger, the internal speaker cannot reproduce the notes on the B string very well. If I turn off the internal speaker and plug a good cab like my SWR into that amp, the B string produces tones that knocks things off shelves. Even better tone if I'm plugged a higher powered amp.

[Tarrbot]

When I have my 4003S/5 plugged into my Gallien-Krueger, the internal speaker cannot reproduce the notes on the B string very well. If I turn off the internal speaker and plug a good cab like my SWR into that amp, the B string produces tones that knocks things off shelves. Even better tone if I'm plugged a higher powered amp.

This is it exactly, Joey.

After getting my 4003S/5, I didn't notice it at first. Likely because I was flabbergasted to have another Ric after so many years of not having one.

I didn't really notice how awful it sounded on my amp.

I was more focused on getting the chops back that I had lost over the years and also trying to figure out how to play with the tighter string spacing that I wasn't hearing with my ears what was coming out but hearing how awesome I was in my own mind. Yeah, I suffer from this a lot.

Anyway, I shortly realized that the little amp that could certainly couldn't with a Ric in the equation. So I took it into the local GC and plugged it into a few amps. One of the guys working there is how I came across this Ric so I go in occasionally and jam on their dime. I've plugged it into Edens, Markbass, Ampeg--you name it. Some I like a lot and sound phenomenal and others just sound blah... even comparably spec'd.

Regardless, the issue was my amp. Nothing more. It's almost laughable when I play on it too. Jamming along on the A or D and drop down to the E and it's instant *THUD*. It's almost like a muted note throughout the whole string... everywhere on the string.

But it's the amp!!!

On an interesting side note, plugging it into ubuntu studio's Arbour mixing app, when recording it nearly melts and maxes the gain out totally overpowering the mix without proper filters put in place. On. Every. String. B string included.

[johnallg]

... I wasn't hearing with my ears what was coming out but hearing how awesome I was in my own mind. Yeah, I suffer from this a lot.

Scott, I think we are all legends in our own minds!

[Tarrbot]

... I wasn't hearing with my ears what was coming out but hearing how awesome I was in my own mind. Yeah, I suffer from this a lot.

Scott, I think we are all legends in our own minds!

I'm a god after 10pm EST most nights.

Then I sit all day at work thinking how great I sound and then can't wait to get home to do it all over again.

[faceman]

John, I need to find the right allen key to fit the pole pieces but I will try this. The thought of dismantling that damn bridge pickup makes me shudder

Scott, it's recorded straight into my laptop with a cable from the Ric to the laptop. My usual rig is an Ashdown ABM EVO II 575W head with Ashdown MAG 4x10 cabinet. I haven't got it here with me but judging from some recordings, the problem is similar with the full stack. Playing through my Sennheiser headphones is usually quite an accurate representation of bass sounds.

Joshua, thanks for the message mate. I'm sure my technique could have something to do with it. I'm primarily a fingerstyle player but I'm pretty sure that it's not this. When I play soft, it still seems quiet in proportion to the other notes while playing hard just makes the string 'twang' so to speak! I do wish there was someone near-ish to me who could have a look, never mind! And don't worry, I had a StingRay a few years ago with a weak G string so I know it's just some bases. In that case, it was the preamp but my gut instinct tells me it's the setup on this one. I don't think it's a Ric thing at all, just my bass needs something doing to it!

[ram]

Sebastian, if you think it is the setup I would suggest going over everything as if it were the first time - to recap – New strings - string properly engaged at the tail piece . Check the neck for flatness. String height is next. Then adjust the pickups away from stronger string towards the weaker string (E) - poles (if you have that option) to fine tune the results. The other easy thing to check out, string to pickup alignment.

The next thing to try is the under the tail piece adding shims or washers to fill the little gap at the three screws. After that look at doing the cap bypass (if yours isn’t a new one equipped with the push/pull switch).

I had similar issues with my 4003S as well. The B wasn’t doing what I wanted until I got it setup and tweaked to where I wanted it. The amp wasn’t a problem as it worked fine with my 4001 low end response (old Carvin with 2x15’s cab). Once I got it zeroed in, bar keeps in smaller venues were complaining about it rumbling the bottles on the wall. Note – I do notice different response when playing with different rigs.

good luck with this...

[jamespaul71]

I had the problem, problem lessened.

Two part issue- bridge saddles were cut improperly and the e string was not close enough to the pickups (particularly the neck pickup). Another element is that the e string needs to be played differently than the other strings to maintain the tone. My next set of strings will be really really narrow gauge, I think the gauge has a lot to do with the way the strings resonate on these basses but I'm much happier after doing the saddles myself and spacing them better/etc. Take a look at factory 4001 saddle cuts versus modern 4003 saddle cuts, look for clues.

[cassius987]

I kind've think string tension--abnormally high or low--could factor in here too. I have noticed on lots of string sets that the E and/or G-strings are sometimes way off the beaten path compared to the others, in terms of tension.

The shorter scale of a Ric (33.5'' IIRC) means any string installed will have a little less tension than the same string on a 34'' scale instrument (most basses). Consider that as well. To get the same feel of your favorite string set on your P Bass you would need to size up just a bit. (From 100 to 105 on the E for instance.) Because RIC uses a 45-55-75-105 nut slotting (and presumably saddle slotting) some work by a luthier may be needed to get the right strings in place. Why RIC uses the gauges they do is probably the subject of a different thread.

[rickaddict]

Just do me one favor, though, regarding the weak E situation. Don't go around saying "It's a Ric thing," because it's not!

+10

I've had around 25 Rick basses and played at least 200, and I have to agree with Joshua here. All of the Rick basses that I've taken the time to properly set up are loud, clear and well-balanced across all 4, 5, or 8 strings.

A weak E string is NOT inherent to Rick's shorter scale, and is NOT something that you just have to get used to with a Rick bass.

I think your 4003 just needs some adjusting. When I get a new Rick, I spend a lot of time (over the course of a couple weeks usually) fine tuning the setup. Its a very rewarding thing once you get it right.

Here are a few thoughts that came to my mind reading this thread:

RIC doesn't spend a lot of time perfecting the set-up of the new 4003's before they leave the factory. The action is usually too high at the nut for my liking (probably done intentionally as some players prefer high action -- You can take the action down at the nut easy enough, but raising it usually requires a new nut), and the bridge saddles can be uneven.

I'd pay close attention to the distance between the strings and the pole pieces on your pickup(s). These pickups are very sensitive. Every mm counts when it comes string volume. Measure the distance if you can to get an accurate comparison. The bridge saddles are meant to be able to be easily tweaked (filed). You can use a set of nut files if you have them. I prefer a triangular file. You'll have to remove the bridge of course, and should remove the saddles also. Hold them in a vise. File a little bit, then place your string in the groove to see how high it sits compared to the others if you have to. Once you get them all the same height off the bridge (and hence the same height off the fretboard and pickups as well), you won't have to do this again. It IS a PIA, but once you get it right, it is DONE! Having an even height on all of the strings should help with your playing as well.

Once your bridge saddles are even, check to see if the volume problem still exists. If so, try adjusting the bridge pickup via the large mounting screws on either end of the pickup mounting ring.

If the volume problem can't be adjusted out by raising/lowering the bridge pickup, you'll need to adjust your pole pieces (on 2006 and newer 4003 models only). In order to properly do this to the bridge pickup, you'll need to remove the pickup's cover. Once it is off, adjusting the poles is easy and self-explanatory. Once the poles are adjusted, replace the pickup cover (if you like those things!) and play the hell out of your 4003 for the rest of your life. It now sounds phenomenal! Everybody loves the way it sounds -- most of all, you! Kids want your autograph. Chicks especially dig your tone and find themselves mysteriously drawn to you, regardless of the fact that you don't look like Brad Pitt.

[beacon]

I agree with Jeff...not an inherent "problem" with Rics. It is however a common issue...you see it posted on the Ric forum often, and indeed my DCM arrived with just this issue, the E string volume was significantly less than the other strings. Note the Ric I purchased prior to the DCM (1995 4003) came from the shop perfectly set-up (the shop did not do it as it had just arrived the day I bought it). So if not all of the 4003's have this issue, then indeed it must be set-up.

It took me about a month to get it corrected on the DCM, this mainly because I would tweek something and leave it for a few days, if it didn't work, then on to the next tweek. Plus, the tweeks are best done without a "heavy hand" (small adjustments at a time).

At any rate, new strings first, straight neck second, action (and intonation) third. Got it the way I want it, then on to the E volume issue (note the first three made some improvement). I mostly then fiddled with PU adjustments, higher, lower, higher on one side, etc. I also fooled around with the pole adjustments. In the end, the neck pup ended up where it was originally set. The bridge pup seemed to be the culprit. Along with everything else, I adjusted the height and the poles....following John Hall's advice of lowering the poles (just slightly) of the higher volume strings (as opposed to raising just the E string pole) and viola!!! Perfection ever since.

[jagdeluxe]

Two weeks ago,i spent the better part of an afternoon adjusting the pick ups and pole pieces.Then i put the bass in the case for over two weeks straight.With a fresh outlook i plugged her in yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at the volume of the E string ,i now enjoy the beautiful sound of this bass.

[cassius987]

Two weeks ago,i spent the better part of an afternoon adjusting the pick ups and pole pieces.Then i put the bass in the case for over two weeks straight.With a fresh outlook i plugged her in yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at the volume of the E string ,i now enjoy the beautiful sound of this bass.

SWEET! Cheers!!