Genesis - Mike Rutherford's double neck Ric seen in Dancing/Moonlit Knight live performance. I'm not sure if it counts as a 4080 - still fun to watch.
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=5uAXTwCXwks
Mike R's double neck
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: Mike R's double neck
Definitely not a 4080!!! But definitely fun to watch. Search RRF for lots more Rutherford stuff.
Re: Mike R's double neck
Definitely not a 4080, but definitely a Rick. That guitar, and the guy playing it, were the reasons I made the trip to Santa Ana in Dec. of '76 to see if Ric would make a similar one for me. The guy at the front counter stepped back into the shop and came out with a 4080/12 that he said had been ordered by someone and not paid for, and I said 'sold'. They wouldn't sell it directly to me...I had to go back up to Anchorage and buy it through the authorized dealer there.
The band I was playing in was doing a number of Genesis covers, and I started in right away getting the 'hang' of playing the beast. I had told the guy at Ric that I wanted one just like Rutherford's, and he told me they had tried doing that, but they encountered too many structural problems with that design, and wound up having to put the bass neck above and the twelve below. I soon found out that the 4080 arrangement was not ideal for copping Mike R.'s parts...mostly the twelve stuff. If you look closely at his playing on 'Moonlit Knight', for example, you can see first how easy it is to 'strum' full chords at 16th note rates...the wrist is in the perfect place to do this. Drop that neck down four inches, and strumming becomes less natural and more difficult. Then there's the issue of holding barre chords...enough work on a twelve to begin with, but made even harder by having to crank the wrist to such an extreme angle. Again, look at Mike's left hand...nice and natural. I do have almost double-jointed wrists, which made copping those parts possible, but it wasn't a barrel of laughs. Even now, if I put my left wrist in the position I had to assume to get those chords at the low end of the neck, it produces pain up the entire length of my arm.
And speaking of producing pain...watching that video filled me with waves of sadness...okay, maybe a little for the loss of my own youth, but much more because I remember our lead singer, who was able to sound exactly like Gabriel...it was really uncanny. (He could also do an amazing Derek Shulman). He was one of my very best friends in this world, and was killed on his motorcycle at the age of 26. I could say a lot about that trip, but the heaviest thing that happened was that I had a complete and overwhelming premonition of his death. I only mean to say that we were really close...and seeing this early Genesis video material brings all that stuff back pretty hard.
That's not even to touch on how depressing it is to see how incredibly those guys played individually and together back then, when one considers the absolute rot they manufactured for years after Gabriel left...
The band I was playing in was doing a number of Genesis covers, and I started in right away getting the 'hang' of playing the beast. I had told the guy at Ric that I wanted one just like Rutherford's, and he told me they had tried doing that, but they encountered too many structural problems with that design, and wound up having to put the bass neck above and the twelve below. I soon found out that the 4080 arrangement was not ideal for copping Mike R.'s parts...mostly the twelve stuff. If you look closely at his playing on 'Moonlit Knight', for example, you can see first how easy it is to 'strum' full chords at 16th note rates...the wrist is in the perfect place to do this. Drop that neck down four inches, and strumming becomes less natural and more difficult. Then there's the issue of holding barre chords...enough work on a twelve to begin with, but made even harder by having to crank the wrist to such an extreme angle. Again, look at Mike's left hand...nice and natural. I do have almost double-jointed wrists, which made copping those parts possible, but it wasn't a barrel of laughs. Even now, if I put my left wrist in the position I had to assume to get those chords at the low end of the neck, it produces pain up the entire length of my arm.
And speaking of producing pain...watching that video filled me with waves of sadness...okay, maybe a little for the loss of my own youth, but much more because I remember our lead singer, who was able to sound exactly like Gabriel...it was really uncanny. (He could also do an amazing Derek Shulman). He was one of my very best friends in this world, and was killed on his motorcycle at the age of 26. I could say a lot about that trip, but the heaviest thing that happened was that I had a complete and overwhelming premonition of his death. I only mean to say that we were really close...and seeing this early Genesis video material brings all that stuff back pretty hard.
That's not even to touch on how depressing it is to see how incredibly those guys played individually and together back then, when one considers the absolute rot they manufactured for years after Gabriel left...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
Re: Mike R's double neck
Dane, sorry about your friend... it's amazing how stuff can trigger the powerful emotions years later. I do tend to agree with your assesment of the band after Peter and them parted ways... but I really do like the way Mike played/plays!!!
Re: Mike R's double neck
Neat story, Dane.
Just a few weeks ago, I charted out the Rutherford and Hackett parts for Dancing With the Moonlit Knight. My band may consider doing it at some point, probably after we've released our second album, which is a prog concept album.
Just a few weeks ago, I charted out the Rutherford and Hackett parts for Dancing With the Moonlit Knight. My band may consider doing it at some point, probably after we've released our second album, which is a prog concept album.
Re: Mike R's double neck
I saw them back in the day many times so I have seen Mike play it from only a few meter away!ram wrote:Genesis - Mike Rutherford's double neck Ric seen in Dancing/Moonlit Knight live performance. I'm not sure if it counts as a 4080 - still fun to watch.
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=5uAXTwCXwks
Re: Mike R's double neck
Y'know...the removal of a key bit of information from my post above has made me sound like a blithering idiot with a penchant for non-sequitors...something I don't need any help with, thanks...
Now we can't mention LSD? Where is this all heading? I'm not being strident or confrontational about this, but completely sincere and honest, and I'd appreciate an equally honest answer. Discussions of John Lennon may not mention politics? That's very 'iffy', but maybe justifiable. Discussions of Peter Gabriel may not speak about acid? That's just downright absurd, and threatens to lower the chances for interesting conversation here to those available at a site devoted to discussions of which car wax to apply to your Trans Am.
What is it we're doing here? We all own electric guitars and basses, so we're going to talk about rock music...but please don't mention long hair, sideburns or bell-bottom pants, because it's going to cause someone to dissolve in frightened tears...
Once again, and maybe more than ever, I've got one foot out the door and the other one on a banana peel...
Now we can't mention LSD? Where is this all heading? I'm not being strident or confrontational about this, but completely sincere and honest, and I'd appreciate an equally honest answer. Discussions of John Lennon may not mention politics? That's very 'iffy', but maybe justifiable. Discussions of Peter Gabriel may not speak about acid? That's just downright absurd, and threatens to lower the chances for interesting conversation here to those available at a site devoted to discussions of which car wax to apply to your Trans Am.
What is it we're doing here? We all own electric guitars and basses, so we're going to talk about rock music...but please don't mention long hair, sideburns or bell-bottom pants, because it's going to cause someone to dissolve in frightened tears...
Once again, and maybe more than ever, I've got one foot out the door and the other one on a banana peel...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
Re: Mike R's double neck
Pm sent.Don't slip on the peel.
Re: Mike R's double neck
Thanks...maybe I'll just save it and smoke it later...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
Re: Mike R's double neck
Thanks Dane. 
Keep pushin the shops busy.
Keep pushin the shops busy.
Re: Mike R's double neck
AFTER its properly cured in the oven, of course.wayang wrote:Thanks...maybe I'll just save it and smoke it later...
Hang in there, Dane, and around here.
Re: Mike R's double neck
At 2.56 here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EYU75u ... re=related
you get a good look at the thing, but more importantly how it sounds. Classic Ric Tone...
Dane, Surely you were talking about the Limited Slip Differential, what with the talk of Trans Am and car wax etc...
We need to get creative here, especially if we are to keep things interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EYU75u ... re=related
you get a good look at the thing, but more importantly how it sounds. Classic Ric Tone...
Dane, Surely you were talking about the Limited Slip Differential, what with the talk of Trans Am and car wax etc...
We need to get creative here, especially if we are to keep things interesting...
Re: Mike R's double neck
I recently had a discussion with another Rutherford fan, speculating what the extra switch does. We eventually and uncertainly settled on "kill switch for the bass." Others' thoughts?
Re: Mike R's double neck
I think being creative needs to be little more creative than that Andy but i like your thinking im up for that.
but i like your thinking im up for that.