Rick-O-Sound input

[rickinroma]

In our Italian bass player forum an user opened a thread regarding the rick-o-sound input and the use of it (rick-o-sound box or eventually a Y cable, etc).

What drawn my attention was the assertion he made saying that since he plays the treble pickup only, he regularly uses the rick-o-sound jack as main input with a standard cable, no matter if the neck pick-up is off in this case.
At the question "why don't you simple use the standard input putting the switch down, so you can eventually have more sound options in case bla bla bla...." he claimed that after trying many many times experimenting both solutions, he noticed that the sound produced by the isolated treble pickup when plugging the r-o-s input with a standard cable was clearly different and undoubtedly better (fuller, clearer, etc) than the sound of the same pickup when the instrument is connected through the standard input holding the switch down...


I am no expert in electronics and wiring issues and I have played Rickenbackers for 30 years mainly in the standard mono mode only, but this claim sounded really strange to me

I'll give it a try when I have some time at home, but I cannot see a reason why the same pickup would sound any different

[jingle_jangle]

Francesco, you're a bass guy nonpareil, so don't take offense, but we should be clear about these things:

It's the output you're talking about on the bass. The input is on whatever amp you're plugging into.

[rickinroma]

English is not my mother language, sorry, so use your fantasy, Paul

in other words he connects a standard mono jack into the r-o-s hole in his bass jackplate ....the result is treble pickup active only, as we all know, once the other side of the jack is connected into an amp or whatever

he claims that in this way the sound of the treble pickup is far better than using the standard "jack entrance" in the bass and setting the switch down (treble pickup only)

electronically speaking is that possible? I don't see how

[jingle_jangle]

Thanks for taking it so well, Francesco...

My wife is Brasilian, and Portuguese has far fewer prepositions than English, so even after over 30 years in the USA, she still confuses "on" with "in", and "out" with "around" and "off", etc. Makes for some interesting variations on my mental pictures.

[SMR 78]

That's interesting I'll have to try that. I have no explanation as to why isolating the bridge pickup one way vs. another (ROS vs. mono jack) should be any different sonically. I would also hope that it's not potentially harming anything by using a mono cable into the ROS Jack but I would expect not. Do you happen to know what kind of music he's playing that he only wants/needs the bridge pickup? (just curious).

**edit** By the way, Rickinroma, I've thoroughly enjoyed your YouTube videos - great playing and tone.

[woodyng]

maybe it makes it sound more like a 4000.....

[cjj]

Yes, there could be a difference in sound between using the R-O-S jack with a mono cable and using the standard jack with the selector switch set for treble pickup only. And no, you will not damage anything by doing this. Looking at the schematic for the 4003, you can see that the difference, when using the mono output, is that the bass volume control will still be connected. This will place an additional 330k ohm resistor to ground across the output.

Now, one would assume that all this would do is lower the volume (with the bass control full up, you now have a maximum of 165k ohms across the output instead of 330k). But, since the pickup circuit is a resonant system, with inductance (the pickup) capacitance, and resistance, changing any of these values will change the circuit resonances and will affect what frequencies and harmonics are available to some extent (this will also be affected by your cables and amp input circuitry to some extent as well).

The differences will be small, and probably not noticeable most of the time, but with an individual amp, speaker, cable, and instrument combination as well as a very discerning ear, one might well be able to tell that there is a difference in the sound.

Edit: I guess I should add that I have not actually tried to hear the difference, I pretty much have always used the R-O-S output. The difference may be more pronounced than I implied.

[jdogric12]

It is different. I have an apocryphal factory confirmation on this. In fact, that's how I used my 330/12JD TUR during the 75th celebrations.

[rickinroma]

cj, thanks for the explaination
if I understand well, you mean that the bass pickup (through its volume control) is still connected even if the switch that should exclude the bass pu is full down (treble pu only) so that the resistance of its pot affects the general (or treble pu in this given case) volume?
So if he used a Y cable or a r.o.s. box the bass pu would be still in the circuit even when the switch is down...?

That guy says that the difference noticed is pretty relevant, "particularly different" and for sure better, he claims


Smr78, thank you I am glad you enjoyed my clips
He plays Heavy Metal and he is also in a Storm Riders Tribute Band


Paul, talking about prepositions, my wife is Hungarian and their language has no prepositions in traditional meaning...but the rest is a huge nightmare

[cjj]

cj, thanks for the explaination
if I understand well, you mean that the bass pickup (through its volume control) is still connected even if the switch that should exclude the bass pu is full down (treble pu only) so that the resistance of its pot affects the general (or treble pu in this given case) volume?
So if he used a Y cable or a r.o.s. box the bass pu would be still in the circuit even when the switch is down...?

No, the selector switch disconnects the pickup and the tone control part of the circuit. So, regardless of whether you use R-O-S or the Standard jacks, the pickup will be disconnected. When using the Standard (mono) jack, it connects the outputs of both the bass and treble pickup circuits, just after the volume control. If you select one pickup only, the other pickup and it's tone control are disconnected, but it's volume control is still connected. The combined resistance will work as if you turned the remaining pickup's volume control to half way up.

With the R-O-S jack, each pickup circuit is completely separate. If you select just one pickup, the other pickup and its tone control will be disconnected, but that pickup's volume control will still be across that output. This is good because if it were not, you could get hum/noise into the amp connected to the pickup that was switched off.

With R-O-S, each pickup is completely separate and has no effect on the other. With mono, the pickups are connected together at the output jack and they will affect each other to some extent.

[rickinroma]

so using the r-o-s in an appropriate way would mean, electronically speaking, like playing two different single pickup basses at the same time....

...whilst using the standard way each pickup volume control still affects (to some slightly audible extent) the whole signal/final output, even if you select only one of them

very interesting

thank you again

[johnallg]

Francesco, only the bridge treble pickup is available at the ROS output when a standard mono cable is plugged in. The neck bass pickup is shorted to ground by the long part of the mono cable plug. No sleeve section like on a stereo plug.

[SMR 78]

cj, thanks for the explaination
if I understand well, you mean that the bass pickup (through its volume control) is still connected even if the switch that should exclude the bass pu is full down (treble pu only) so that the resistance of its pot affects the general (or treble pu in this given case) volume?
So if he used a Y cable or a r.o.s. box the bass pu would be still in the circuit even when the switch is down...?

No, the selector switch disconnects the pickup and the tone control part of the circuit. So, regardless of whether you use R-O-S or the Standard jacks, the pickup will be disconnected. When using the Standard (mono) jack, it connects the outputs of both the bass and treble pickup circuits, just after the volume control. If you select one pickup only, the other pickup and it's tone control are disconnected, but it's volume control is still connected. The combined resistance will work as if you turned the remaining pickup's volume control to half way up.

With the R-O-S jack, each pickup circuit is completely separate. If you select just one pickup, the other pickup and its tone control will be disconnected, but that pickup's volume control will still be across that output. This is good because if it were not, you could get hum/noise into the amp connected to the pickup that was switched off.

With R-O-S, each pickup is completely separate and has no effect on the other. With mono, the pickups are connected together at the output jack and they will affect each other to some extent.

Ahhhh....the volume control not being disconnected explains why when I have the Y-Cable or ROS box hooked up to the ROS jack, then connecting only one pickup to the amp, then putting the switch on the pickup that's not connected to the amp, there is still a slight bleed of very low volume into the amp - it's not completely muted. Same thing happens if I run one pickup through a mute footswitch and mute that pickup for tuning. This is of course with the muted pickup's volume control on full. I thought my wiring was out of whack from some prior repairs but had a new wiring harness installed and it still was happening. Other Rics in the store did this too so it wasn't just mine. Sorry I'm straying a bit from the original issue of the thread but this all makes perfect sense - thanks for the explanation CJ.