Mono? or Stereo? Or Both?

[FretlessOnly]

John, can you tell me what the stereo mixes of "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" are like on the mono set?

I actually have not listened to them yet. I'm taking all this in slowly on purpose. But if the mono Rubber Soul is any indication, then the stereo versions will likely sound great too. The bass on Rubber Soul really comes through.

[dinorock]

Jake,

Don't mean to step over John's upcoming response(s) but I've been A/B ing "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" mono/stereo while heading out in the morning and returning home. (Of course, when you do it while driving to/from work some local legal entities may perceive it to be distracted driving!) None the less, I'm really enjoying both versions. You get accustomed to that wall of sound in the mono mix and then you switch over to the stereo and there's some space. You grow to appreciate the space then you switch back to mono and you like the fact it's not separated. Even with all the controls in my car I can't get a "middle of the room" mix while driving. Guess I'll have to go back at it with headphones at home. With either version, you get clean sound and can really hear what was going on. By the way, they sound great with the volume up.

If you want specifics on songs, let me(us) know. It's going to take a while...so many titles!

[JakeK]

Alright, Todd, since you've listened to "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" stereo mixes in the mono set, I'll ask you the questions.

In 1986, when George Martin was remixing "Help!", he found that the original mixes were too "bad for release". All of the songs (for both albums) were remixed, one song I can think of off the top of my head is "Dizzy Miss Lizzie". On "The Capitol Albums", the "Beatles VI" mix of "Lizzie" has less reverb and is more together than the '87 version. On the '09 remastered stereo "Help!" I have (which was derived from the '86/'87 remixes), "Lizzie" has less reverb on the '09 stereo remaster than the '87 mix, but still does not have as little as the "Beatles VI" version.

"It's Only Love" on the American "Rubber Soul" had a serious double-tracked vocal flub from John in the first chorus. When George Martin was remixed the UK "Help!" for CD in '86, he removed this flub creating a hard loss in the double tracking for about 1-2 seconds. The flub is retained in the '09 remaster, and I would assume it's either retained in original stereo mix of "Help!" or features the hard edit.

Also on the "Capitol Albums", versions of "The Word" and "I'm Looking Through You" on the American "Rubber Soul" were different than the '87 mix, and still different from the '09 master. "I'm Looking Through You" had not only two false starts at the beginning, but ALL the instruments were panned to the left, and the vocals and Ringo's "tapping" on a box of matches remained on the right (from what I remember, haven't listened to "Captiol Albums" in a while).

"The Word" was similar, as in all the instruments were panned to the left, and all the vocals were on the right, but John's vocal was double-tracked, too. In the '87/'09 mix, John only has a single voice present and some vocals (from Paul and George) were on the left, and (single tracked) John as well as more Paul and George were on the right, in addition to some maracas by Ringo on the right.

And for the mono "Help!", I heard that the mono mix of the song "Help!" features a different lead vocal from John (which I'm believing was his guide vocal) and no tambourine from Ringo in the chorus. This was not present in the US mono mix of "Help!" (that was just the two stereo channels combined, as far as I'm know). The stereo mix of "Help!" has a clean double tracked vocal from John in addition to Ringo's tambourine.

If you can answer my questions, it will be appriciated.

[dinorock]

Jake,

Cool, I have homework. But I'm not exactly sure what the questions are as you appear to be comparing not only the mono/stereo 09 remasters but also original album versions from two different markets. I've tried to narrow things down. Are these about right?

1. "Dizzy MIss LIzzie": What are the relative amounts of reverb on three different mixes going back to Capitals' "Beatles VI"?
2. "It's Only Love": Is the vocal flub in the first chorus retained or edited on the stereo "Help!"?
3. "I'm Looking Through You": How many false starts, what is the panning like, and is Ringo's match box there?
4. "The Word": How is the panning done?, Is John's vocal double or single tracked? Where are the maracas?
5. "Help!": Mono version - Which of John's vocal leads is present and is there or isn't there tambourine in the chorus?

I think I can answer #5 now but to be sure I'm going to go back and listen.

TB

[dinorock]

Good morning Jake,

Here's what my trip in to work revealed today.

#5. "Help!" - Honestly, I don't know which of John's vocals is used but there is no tambourine on the mono chorus and it is clearly there on the stereo version.
#4. "The Word" - I'm hearing John's vocal far right with 1 harmony line and two vocals on the left. I only hear a single tracked lead vocal. Maracas on the right.
#3. "I'm Looking Through You" - One false start, matches on the right, vocals right with guitar fill, acoustic with instruments on left.

Well, that's what I heard. All corrections welcome! I'll try to get to the other two on the way home. Have a good one.

[JakeK]

#5. "Help!" - Honestly, I don't know which of John's vocals is used but there is no tambourine on the mono chorus and it is clearly there on the stereo version.
#4. "The Word" - I'm hearing John's vocal far right with 1 harmony line and two vocals on the left. I only hear a single tracked lead vocal. Maracas on the right.
#3. "I'm Looking Through You" - One false start, matches on the right, vocals right with guitar fill, acoustic with instruments on left.

Well, that's what I heard. All corrections welcome! I'll try to get to the other two on the way home. Have a good one.

Alright, so "The Word" isn't like the US stereo mix (that must be really exlusive to "Captiol Albums"). "I'm Looking Through You" is more or less what appeared on "Capitol Albums". "Help!" has a different vocal from the stereo mix, if you can describe the mono vocal, that would be appreciated.

[8mileshigher]

I have a general question for those of you who have purchased either the Mono or Stereo Re-masters.

This concerns the "volume" level that the recordings are made with. One general complaint I have always had from the original Parlephone CD releases is that certain Beatles Albums are recorded with higher volume levels than others in the Beatles collection. When you put a couple of Beatles CDs in a changer, where it would play songs and albums at random, these variances in volume were always very noticeable and quite annoying necessitating manual adjustment of the stereo volume control at home or in the car, song by song, to compensate for this factor.

On these Re-Masters --- is the volume level consistent from one CD to another -- or are they like the old ones requiring volume knob manual adjustment ??

[dinorock]

Jake,

#3. "I'm Looking Through You" - One false start? (I remember the version where it stops completely...this isn't it.), matches on the right, vocals right with guitar fill, acoustic with instruments on left.

#2. "It's Only Love." John's vocal on "... 's only..." disappears from the double track (right) for about a second (0:43-0:44) and reappears on "love." One vocal appears fine, the other has a drop.

#1. "Dizzy Miss Lizzie." I don't have a Beatles VI to compare these with but the stereo '09 is very flat on the vocals.

#5. "Help!" mono revisited. John's vocal: Well, mono has more reverb to my ears and less compression. I was listening for intonation and voicings at the end for phrases such as "..down...round...ground", looking for differences. (Never realized how much he slurred or dropped the note until now.) To be honest, I was having a hard time really hearing the vocal on the mono mix through headphones. I've played and sung onstage and if you tell me there's a difference I'd say he's more confident on the stereo take then on mono. But again, it was hard for me to hear any nuances.

That's all I've got. Take care.

[JakeK]

Todd, thanks for your help. I'm starting to believe that the stereo mixes you have of "Rubber Soul" and "Help!" from the mono set may be the '86 masters, and the '09 stereo masters are the original versions.

Again, thanks for your help and providing me with this information.

And as a side note: I was looking through my CD collection, and I actually have a bootleg copy of the mono "Help!" (which features a very cool cover) (apparently my mom said she got it for me sometime in 2002), and it features the UK mono mix of "Help!". I listened to that and the stereo back to back, and heard two very different lead vocal tracks. John's vocal on the mono "Help!" is actually rougher and words are slurred than in the stereo mix where the vocal is pure. Now I know why I think it was John's guide vocal. Reading further in the '09 stereo "Help!", that track had all four tracks overdubbed onto it when it was time for John to overdub his vocal so George Martin removed his guide vocal from the recording and John overdubbed a new vocal. The mono mix was made from the original session tape, the stereo was made from the new mix, I believe.

[lennon211]

Todd, thanks for your help. I'm starting to believe that the stereo mixes you have of "Rubber Soul" and "Help!" from the mono set may be the '86 masters, and the '09 stereo masters are the original versions.

Again, thanks for your help and providing me with this information.

And as a side note: I was looking through my CD collection, and I actually have a bootleg copy of the mono "Help!" (which features a very cool cover) (apparently my mom said she got it for me sometime in 2002), and it features the UK mono mix of "Help!". I listened to that and the stereo back to back, and heard two very different lead vocal tracks. John's vocal on the mono "Help!" is actually rougher and words are slurred than in the stereo mix where the vocal is pure. Now I know why I think it was John's guide vocal. Reading further in the '09 stereo "Help!", that track had all four tracks overdubbed onto it when it was time for John to overdub his vocal so George Martin removed his guide vocal from the recording and John overdubbed a new vocal. The mono mix was made from the original session tape, the stereo was made from the new mix, I believe.

The stereo mixes that are on the mono set are not the '86 mixes. They are the original 1965 stereo mixes that were made for the British market. According to notes included in the box set, George Martin wasn't present when 8 of the Help! tracks were mixed into stereo. It offers no indication as to why he remixed them in '86. Nevertheless, these are the original UK mixes that have not been on an offically sanctioned Beatles release before, hence their inclusion on this set.

[kenposurf]

Got the stereo box in yesterday..kind of odd packaging I thought. After spinning the mono versions all last week was ready to compare. First up was Revolver. Stereo version was more ear candy for me..stereo effects and more articulated...mono version in comparison sounded huge..wall of sound..made the stereo version sound thin. I hesitated to buy these boxes but now glad to have done so...both are worth having.

[FretlessOnly]

...The stereo mixes that are on the mono set are not the '86 mixes. They are the original 1965 stereo mixes that were made for the British market. According to notes included in the box set, George Martin wasn't present when 8 of the Help! tracks were mixed into stereo. It offers no indication as to why he remixed them in '86. Nevertheless, these are the original UK mixes that have not been on an offically sanctioned Beatles release before, hence their inclusion on this set.

Just to be clear then; the stereo versions on the mono CDs of Help! and Rubber Soul were not part of the recent re-mastering effort and are different from the stereo versions of these two albums in the stereo box set?

[wolfgang]

they are remastered, too. Yes they are different. Many do not like the 1987s mixes of Help! and Rubber Soul (althogh the original 1965 stereo mix of Rubber Soul is a pretty right/left-ping pong mix. George Martin wanted to avoid some mono/stereo incompatibilities when listening to the stereo record with mono equipment).
By the way: none of the 3 versions of I'm looking through you (on my copies) have the "false start" banding error.
We need the Capitol mixes, too.
For those looking for a decent mix of I call your name, please take the Capitol stereo mix and combine both channels to mono. This is the only correct edited mix. (There is too much reverb in this stereo mix, but it cancels out a bit by combining it to mono).
For the stereo version they use the one from the Rock and Roll album of the 70s.

Wolfgang

[dinorock]

When you load "Rubber Soul" or "Help!" disks from the mono box into your player you'll see [1965 Stereo Mix] after the titles on the stereo tracks. I've looked through my collection of Capital vinyl and I must have lost Rubber Soul in college...arrrrghgh! I have that false start somewhere, I know it. Maybe on a 25 year old cassette! Another search is about to begin.

But, I did discover that I have "Introducing the Beatles" on Vee-Jay (Stereo) and three White Albums, one of which is on Apple and has the embossed cover and a serial number (Stereo), one on Capital (Stereo), and one Original Master Recording (Capital and Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab). Didn't remember I had more than one. Hmmm. Back to the archives.

[bottom4]

There are numerous Mono Box Sets on Ebay for under $150.00 Has any one here picked one of these up (from ebay) are they legit???