Vintage vs. Modern (non-Rics apply here, too)

[longhouse]

"Everybody knows rock achieved perfection in 1974" - Homer Simpson

(_8^(|)

I have some ultra-modern gear such as my Garrison guitar. Solid wood top, back, and sides fitted to a graphite 'skeleton'; Buzz Feiten tuning system, etc.

But almost all manufacturers seem bent on recapturing (if not just mining for profit) their vintage heydays.

What's a modern guitar sound? A detuned ESP Gibson knockoff played through scooped mid bludgeoning distortion? Dave Matthews style acoustic sounds?
Even Bob Taylor's amazing acoustic pickup ideas are meant to simply capture the true sound of the instruments.

Sound-wise we haven't crossed over into a Jetson era of space age sounds. It's still drums, guitar, and bass for the most part.
For me it's a pretty incredible time to be alive now that Rickenbacker, Gretsch, and Fender guitars can be made to vintage specs with modern CNC equipment speed and precision. In ways it's the Golden Age of instrument making.

A few modern concessions are nice. Vox AC30s don't catch fire quite as often now as they once did.

The future is still looking to the past.

Adolph Rickenbacker
The Hall family
Leo Fender
Les Paul
etc.

[collin]

Vintage----all the way, no matter what.


To me, it has nothing to do with what's "better." Both can play fine, and a modern reissue can play just as well as a vintage Ric if not better.....but it has more to do with the unique characteristics of each and every vintage instrument. Each one kinda "tells a story" about it's 40 year history, and the best vintage guitars have the most "story" to tell (I like them with as much beat-up honest wear and patina as possible, they always play better).

So, it's about finding an instrument that speaks to you. Sadly, I haven't been able to do the same thing with any series of reissue guitars that are plucked off the wall, each one shiny and perfect, and playing identical. I'm sure they'll have stories in the future too, but right now they leave me cold.

Plus, attention to detail (not trying to knock Ric at all, here), was different back in the 60's. Vintage Rics seem like a fragile violin. Refined, and delicate. From the super thin necks, to the original crushed pearl inlays, super thin neck binding, original toaster pickups etc etc....I could go on----they are simply different on a number of levels. I don't know too many people who "go vintage" and then go back to reissue stuff. I also think electric guitars made between, oh--1952 and 1969 represent an amazing time in the history of American Industry, where they perfected the art and craft of building electric guitars, and it's nice to own guitars that showcase this unique period of Americana.

Lastly----if I'm inspired by something musically (which is usually old music), I'd rather play exactly what my favorite musicans played, down to the small construction details and hardware, to get the exact sound they achieved. The devil's in the details...

[jingle_jangle]

Well said, Collin.

I'd like to add that there is still a good deal of nice, handmade stuff available today if anyone is of a mind to look and willing to spend money (which is replaceable) for a lovingly-crafted handmade artifact (which represents a substantial amount time taken away from the artisan's finite life, and is thus irreplaceable.)

Still, there's nothing wrong with well-made new or newer stuff: it's more affordable and gives good reliable service. Production quality has improved due to the introduction of computer-related mechanization, in many cases. It is just lacking in patina and back-story, which humanizes inanimate objects.

And to anyone who is inclined to think that things of this nature are dearer today than they were, say, a half-century ago, just refer to a reliable inflation calculator.

[whojamfan]

In the early/mid 80s, I had the priveledge of owning and playing what have become known as "vintage classics". They were very inexpensive, as metal was king and everybody wanted the latest greatest flashy rockstar guitar. Old stuff has that cool vibe, but so much of what I played and owned was inconsistent, and quite frankly, junk. Necks that were unplayable and hardware that was dysfunctional at best. Finding that "one" that really was a fully functional, intonated instrument was a rare treat. I will say, however, that when it was right, it couldn't be touched.
With todays insane market, a vintage instrument simply isn't worth the money as something to play gigs with. Collecting and recording are usually all the action these old birds see. This is why Fenders Relic series is so popular, and why Kieth Richards initially had them make identical copies of his beloved instrument. After all, who wants to risk their prize instrument to idiots in bars or theives?
Vintage stuff is very cool, has the mojo and the vibe, but truth be told, my experiences have led me to conclude that unless it's a smoking hot deal, or I become a collector, they just aren't worth the bread
So many great advances have been made since the 40s/50s, that to not consider them is like driving a Model T, IMHO. With such a wide and diverse range of hardware, amps, and instruments, just about every manufacturer makes something in their line that is high quality, or else they go the way of the Dodo bird. Guitars as a whole are built much better than the majority of instruments made in "the day", and offer the player a level of expression never before available, with just as many options. But, as many have said, they don't have the vibe/soul/mojo-whatnot, at least as far as popular opinion goes.
Don't get me wrong, nothing is finer than a well made instrument that is at the top of it's game, and those of you who own such instruments can attest to that wholeheartedly. I had some 60s Mosrites I would trade any guitar I own to have again.
So, for me anyways, it simply breaks down to application. I'll take an MIM Strat with killer aftermarket pickups and hardware to my bar gigs and leave the 62 at home. The 62 will make the band photos and recording sessions, but I won't risk anything happening to it, as replacement is out of reality expensive, and the emotional attachment as well.
It just depends Jake.

[vintagemusicgear]

I'm basically a vintage guy. Not "just because it's old," but to me, nothing sounds and FEELS like an old old guitar. I have to agree with Collin that rarely does someone "go vintage" then gets into reissues later on. I have some newer rics, but they are "players" and allow me to mod them at will without any concern. However, I always reach for the old stuff. I think how a guitar feels is just as important as everything else. I do find that all the vintage rics that I have, even though the frets are low and the fingerboard is laquered and has a tight radius, all play amazingly clean and fast with super low action. I can't really explain why. And yes I do play lead guitar, because to me Rics are not just "rhythm guitars." As heinous as it may sound, my old rics sound great through my Peavey 5150. But that's another story......I respect the reissue stuff and modern production methods, and wish that I loved the newer stuff more than the old because that would save a lot of $$$$! But I would rather pay more for one great vintage guitar than several newer reissues. Just my opinion though.

[rkbsound]

My 2 favorite guitars: '66 Rick 335 and 2003 Epi Dot. Sure, the Epi Dot has needed some work, but so has the Rick. Two ends of the spectrum, but both deliver.

[wj350]

Interesting question...I don't have any genuine vintage stuff, but most of the stuff I do have is either a modernized version or RI of something vintage. Only exceptions might be my Am Dlx Strat, and my Roland E-drums.

[whojamfan]

I'm basically a vintage guy. Not "just because it's old," but to me, nothing sounds and FEELS like an old old guitar. I have to agree with Collin that rarely does someone "go vintage" then gets into reissues later on. I have some newer rics, but they are "players" and allow me to mod them at will without any concern. However, I always reach for the old stuff. I think how a guitar feels is just as important as everything else. I do find that all the vintage rics that I have, even though the frets are low and the fingerboard is laquered and has a tight radius, all play amazingly clean and fast with super low action. I can't really explain why. And yes I do play lead guitar, because to me Rics are not just "rhythm guitars." As heinous as it may sound, my old rics sound great through my Peavey 5150. But that's another story......I respect the reissue stuff and modern production methods, and wish that I loved the newer stuff more than the old because that would save a lot of $$$$! But I would rather pay more for one great vintage guitar than several newer reissues. Just my opinion though.

Vintage guitars with low to medium pickups sound awesome through a 5150. I've seen folks play old Fender Mustangs and those little 1 pickup guitars(mind goes blank)through these beasts and sound stellar. I'm not talking about "Gods of Rock" metal tone, but proper distortion and clean tones without the muddiness normally associated with putting these types of guitars through hi-gain amps.

Doesn't sound heinous to me sir!

[vintagemusicgear]

Yes Mike, I agree with you. Many folks would say a Ric through a 5150 II sounds crazy. But remember the Beatles did some "crazy" stuff too, and it sounded great. Doing things outside the box is one way to get new tones. One of my favorite tones is a Ric through a 5150 II because that amp has a great tone shaping section. Of course, going through the right cab makes all the difference. I only play through vintage Marshall and Vox cabs with old speakers. I have A/B'd old vs. new speakers and cabs, and the difference in tone is remarkable. There is no doubt that as far as speakers and cabs go, vintage is king. If you really want to dramatically change your tone, get an old cab with old speakers.

[whojamfan]

I agree with the cabs mostly, but would make sure the new speakers are fully broken in, as this makes all of the difference in the world. Most new cabs just don't seem to have the goods, unless you get a Dr. Z or something that costs a huge amount of dough. My main cab is a 4x12 Hiwatt from the late 70s and still sounds awesome. I have yet to run across a "production" model cab that can even be in the same room with it.

[schoolside]

Great Thread!
I love vintage gear, I love to sell it on eBay

I collect new guitars that were available in the 60's. They all come from the factory ready for a lifetime of flawless service. To get the kind of stuff in the condition I would want, I would have to settle for 2 guitars instead of "a lot of guitars".

[jimk]

I checked the Depends option, but not because I need 'em.

Budget concerns are my highest priority. If I could afford a vintage guitar, and it happened to be a real good player, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase it. Otherwise, I'd look for something new if the price was right, and it filled the need better than the vintage guitar might.

JimK

[8mileshigher]

Interesting thread ----

There probably should have been one more category to select ---

Wish I hadn't sold off guitars and amps in prior decades, cause that gear would all be "vintage" today

[woodyng]

i put "both". i like whatever i can set up to play well and sound great. i have new markbass and 60's ampeg amps,and have bought and sold a lot of 60's-through-millenium basses. the vintage stuff i sometimes have a hard time hanging onto,as i have "justification issues" of a financial nature. i had a 68 tele bass that sounded great,but didn't care for the size of the neck,a 66 epiphone bass that i was afraid to take out of the house,so there's always some compromise involved. i really like my 74 4000 bass,but i LOVE my 2004 cii,just a beautifully made,fantastic sounding and feeling instrument.....