So, is this a Ric thing? Perhaps most of the folks here already know that all issues with new Rics are
handled directly by Ric?
The reason I ask, is that it hasn't been my experience that I had to call the manufacturer for virtually anything, except really serious problems
arising from a real defect in a a product.
Complaint/Rant
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Tom: It is reasonable for most of us to assume that a dealer would assist us with minor repairs.
Should there be a warranty it seems equally reasonable that you might want to take the initiative and contact the manufacturer. RIC provides the new owner with this information along with a registration card in the case.
Should there be a warranty it seems equally reasonable that you might want to take the initiative and contact the manufacturer. RIC provides the new owner with this information along with a registration card in the case.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
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beatlesgear
The point I was trying to make was that Chet found the Rick Forum without any difficulty, it's just as easy to type in www.rickenbacker.com and look through the menue accross the top to find some contact info there. That would make more sense, before posting something on the internet somewhere, my 2cents.
I'm not saying that a dealer shouldn't take care of you, but a warranty issue is usually handled by the factory directly with the customer, not the dealer. A knob the splits or breaks like that is a warranty issue.
I'm not saying that a dealer shouldn't take care of you, but a warranty issue is usually handled by the factory directly with the customer, not the dealer. A knob the splits or breaks like that is a warranty issue.
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spike
I'm not sure why you felt the need to comment on the fact that Chet posted here, but I'll leave that alone.
All I can say, I guess is that I have different expectations than some when it comes to dealer support. Like I said earlier, I believe the dealer is responsible for _everything_ until the I'm satisifed with the guitar.
All I can say, I guess is that I have different expectations than some when it comes to dealer support. Like I said earlier, I believe the dealer is responsible for _everything_ until the I'm satisifed with the guitar.
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beatlesgear
I purchased a guitar off the floor from a dealer in January. When I got home, a small part fell off. Two months later I showed up and mentioned it. They immediately gave me a new part that cost them close to nothing. It was not their responsibility, but they took care of it without blinking because they enjoy making their customers happy.
Last year I purchased a guitar from another dealer, and a few months after I realized that I likely paid more than I should have. I mentioned it to them in passing, they sort of admitted that it could have been the case, and they offered to sell me a hardshell case at 50% off. Again, they enjoy seeing happy customers.
Both are Rickenbacker dealers, (Jackson Music and House of Guitars in upstate NY) and that is how I envision most dealers that sell quality instruments. Sadly, there are plenty of exceptions.
Last year I purchased a guitar from another dealer, and a few months after I realized that I likely paid more than I should have. I mentioned it to them in passing, they sort of admitted that it could have been the case, and they offered to sell me a hardshell case at 50% off. Again, they enjoy seeing happy customers.
Both are Rickenbacker dealers, (Jackson Music and House of Guitars in upstate NY) and that is how I envision most dealers that sell quality instruments. Sadly, there are plenty of exceptions.
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adam_swapp
- Member
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It seems to me that the initial point of contact about this claim should be the dealer. After all, he bought the guitar from the dealer, and not direct from Ric, correct? And the dealer gets paid for something, right? How much work did he have to do for a special order guitar? IMHO, the dealer should have replaced the knob, no questions asked. After all, it would cost him about $2 for a little good will and customer service. It sounds like a tremendous (and unnecessary) PITA for Chet to have to mail back the old knob when the dealer could have solved the problem with a phone call. Kudos to Ric for stepping up, but it seems that one reason for a dealer network is so the company doesn't have to deal with this kind of problem.
You want to put that where?
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cafeathers
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jeff_ulmer
- Intermediate Member
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I had a similar problem with a new C-J PV-14L preamp. There was noise in the right channel that seemed to change with the weather. I called up customer service, and the service rep deduced that a tube had gone noisy. He sent me a new set of matched NOS Mullard tubes, Admiralty Grade (high end British military), which go for around $42 from C-J. He said don't even bother to send back the old tubes, one of which was definitely good. The new tubes came in a customized shipping box with removable cutouts for holding up to 12 miniature tubes, with a diagram on the lid for labeling what tubes are in what hole. The shipping box is so good that I saved it for storing my best NOS miniature triode tubes. This is the legendary customer support that Conrad-Johnson is known for.
Conrad-Johnson Design knows the value of keeping a customer. A lot of businesses could learn a few lessons from them. They even keep a website which is well over 50% devoted to their classic gear, which is a great reference source for their customers buying used gear. The reason: C-J still services EVERY piece of gear they EVER built so the old vintage amps are a source of service revenue. High end amplifiers are much more complex than guitars, and if C-J can service gear they made that is more than 5 years old, then a lot of other companies who claim to be "high end" can do the same thing. If a company doesn't offer this level of service, then how can you expect it to have been made to last a lifetime? This is a way to separate the real quality manufacturers from the pretenders. Another manufacturer that has a similar policy is Ohm Speakers. They will upgrade what they built in the 70's even.
The manufacturer usually gives the warranty, NOT the dealer, unless specifically implied. My used C-J MF-2250 amp came with a 90-day dealer warranty as the C-J warranty no longer applied to used gear, but that's just the level of service you get from a lot of authorized C-J dealers. C-J is rather picky about who sells their gear. However, they do NOT expect dealers to make repairs during the warranty period unless very simple, nor does the dealer have to service vintage gear that has parts availability problems. Requiring shipment back to the factory to fix minor problems only begs for more shipping damage and increased expense, so your LOCAL dealer should handle that. But he needs the sale to do it.
Few manufacturers in the music instrument business will ever come up to C-J standards, however. I don't know of any of the mass market majors that even come close. They serve a different customer. It's interesting to note that all the companies that have these extended service plans tend to be privately held and build a superior product. To a large public corporation, a customer's devotion to a piece of classic gear can't interfere with the bottom line, and selling to Joe Average Consumer through average dealers tends to lower every aspect of the product because costs have to be cut everywhere. Mr. Hall himself said that the problem in North America tends to be selling at too low of a price relative to markets in other countries where enough profit is made to hire competent sales and service personnel. Even a minor 10% hike in prices would vastly increase the dealer's profit margin. C-J, for instance, has very stiff penalties for dealers that sell into other dealers' territory and sell too far below advertised retail price. Vandersteen is another manufacturer that has a similar policy. The manufacturer has to step in because there will always be cutthroats that damage the company's reputation and dealer network to make a quick buck.
I would not be surprised if we see a return to the Fair Trade Laws some day, as the cutthroat pricing policies of mailorder specialists and discount chains have destroyed selection and service for everything except commodity items. In my area of 100,000 population, there isn't a single place with a good selection of quality home audio gear, which is much more mass produced than professional music instruments. You want to see a Rickenbacker at a local music store? Forget about it. Forget about finding a music store with much selection and service as well. Joe Average finds the axe he likes, then goes and buys it from Musician's Friend at a lower price. One guitar manufacturer holding the dealers to a pricing and sales contract like C-J does will NOT work. It works for C-J because quite a few of the high end audio manufacturers appreciate and support similar policies as well. The business climate for musical instrument manufacturers may be OK now, but for their local deakers it isn't. If the Rick in question here was bought at a deep discount, then maybe the customer got exactly what he paid for from the dealer.
Conrad-Johnson Design knows the value of keeping a customer. A lot of businesses could learn a few lessons from them. They even keep a website which is well over 50% devoted to their classic gear, which is a great reference source for their customers buying used gear. The reason: C-J still services EVERY piece of gear they EVER built so the old vintage amps are a source of service revenue. High end amplifiers are much more complex than guitars, and if C-J can service gear they made that is more than 5 years old, then a lot of other companies who claim to be "high end" can do the same thing. If a company doesn't offer this level of service, then how can you expect it to have been made to last a lifetime? This is a way to separate the real quality manufacturers from the pretenders. Another manufacturer that has a similar policy is Ohm Speakers. They will upgrade what they built in the 70's even.
The manufacturer usually gives the warranty, NOT the dealer, unless specifically implied. My used C-J MF-2250 amp came with a 90-day dealer warranty as the C-J warranty no longer applied to used gear, but that's just the level of service you get from a lot of authorized C-J dealers. C-J is rather picky about who sells their gear. However, they do NOT expect dealers to make repairs during the warranty period unless very simple, nor does the dealer have to service vintage gear that has parts availability problems. Requiring shipment back to the factory to fix minor problems only begs for more shipping damage and increased expense, so your LOCAL dealer should handle that. But he needs the sale to do it.
Few manufacturers in the music instrument business will ever come up to C-J standards, however. I don't know of any of the mass market majors that even come close. They serve a different customer. It's interesting to note that all the companies that have these extended service plans tend to be privately held and build a superior product. To a large public corporation, a customer's devotion to a piece of classic gear can't interfere with the bottom line, and selling to Joe Average Consumer through average dealers tends to lower every aspect of the product because costs have to be cut everywhere. Mr. Hall himself said that the problem in North America tends to be selling at too low of a price relative to markets in other countries where enough profit is made to hire competent sales and service personnel. Even a minor 10% hike in prices would vastly increase the dealer's profit margin. C-J, for instance, has very stiff penalties for dealers that sell into other dealers' territory and sell too far below advertised retail price. Vandersteen is another manufacturer that has a similar policy. The manufacturer has to step in because there will always be cutthroats that damage the company's reputation and dealer network to make a quick buck.
I would not be surprised if we see a return to the Fair Trade Laws some day, as the cutthroat pricing policies of mailorder specialists and discount chains have destroyed selection and service for everything except commodity items. In my area of 100,000 population, there isn't a single place with a good selection of quality home audio gear, which is much more mass produced than professional music instruments. You want to see a Rickenbacker at a local music store? Forget about it. Forget about finding a music store with much selection and service as well. Joe Average finds the axe he likes, then goes and buys it from Musician's Friend at a lower price. One guitar manufacturer holding the dealers to a pricing and sales contract like C-J does will NOT work. It works for C-J because quite a few of the high end audio manufacturers appreciate and support similar policies as well. The business climate for musical instrument manufacturers may be OK now, but for their local deakers it isn't. If the Rick in question here was bought at a deep discount, then maybe the customer got exactly what he paid for from the dealer.
"C-J, for instance, has very stiff penalties for dealers that sell into other dealers' territory and sell too far below advertised retail price. Vandersteen is another manufacturer that has a similar policy."
That would also be illegal in the United States.
They could certainly have a MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) policy but any discussion of actual pricing, even just an implication, would be an illegal one. Whether this ultimately benefits the consumer is arguable but that's a different conversation.
That would also be illegal in the United States.
They could certainly have a MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) policy but any discussion of actual pricing, even just an implication, would be an illegal one. Whether this ultimately benefits the consumer is arguable but that's a different conversation.
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jeff_ulmer
- Intermediate Member
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- Contact:
It is also illegal in Canada. I had this discussion with a software developer who insisted I couldn't get better pricing from one of their dealers, but who very quickly recanted their policy to put a limit on discounts when I mentioned the law against price fixing.
It is a myth that higher margins equate to better service. I have been dealing with people who give great service at reasonable margins. Sure, the guy selling below cost isn't likely to go the extra mile, but there is no guarantee that overpaying will net you anything more than the merchandise you paid for.
It is a myth that higher margins equate to better service. I have been dealing with people who give great service at reasonable margins. Sure, the guy selling below cost isn't likely to go the extra mile, but there is no guarantee that overpaying will net you anything more than the merchandise you paid for.