Refretting a Rickenbacker

Bob_Taylor · Post by **Bob_Taylor** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 8:36 am

Hi, Mark, I need to dip into your bag of 1000 tricks! I want to install frets over the neck binding with undercut tangs (like Gibson) on a modern RIC 12. I'm experienced in fret jobs, but not with RIC finished boards. Three questions:

1. How difficult is it to get the old frets out without damaging the neck binding? Will the fingerboard finish soften with heat like Fender, or does the finish need to be scraped off around the frets to get the nippers under them?

2. JH has posted a description of the factory fretting process, involving clamping the boards/necks into a backbow while fretting, to increase neck stiffness. Do you do this? Or, what has your experience been using the normal/traditional method?

3. What are your pro's and con's in re-finishing the boards (I'm only experienced in nitro) vs leaving them bare/waxed?

Thanks a million, Bob T

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:59 am

WOW you really are diving into my bag of tricks ....I am leary to post this info to the world as this is one of the hardest fretboard materials to refret.

THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW!!!

Don't try this at home !!!

Email me at [email protected]

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:18 am

Mark: Would you please take just a couple of moments to explain some of the steps involved so that those of us who may consider having this done would be able to determine the type of individual who should be consulted in such a task. All luthiers are not created equal and some that I have met have had a level of confidence in their work that transcends that of their competency. Addressing a number of key points along with how much time would be required in the refretting of a Rickenbacker, what type of fret wire and so on would be helpful for those who won't be doing it at home. Thanks.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 4:29 pm

Mark,I'm assuming you are referring to Rick's current fingerboard material, Bubinga[aka "African
Rosewood"].Yes, this could be a problem to the uninitiated.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 8:30 pm

The fretboard material of which the Rickenbacker Corp is using is prone to shattering when the frets are removed .
Rosewood and Ebony and maple have a certain amount of resilience that Hong Kong rosewood does not have .

To remove frets I use a 250watt soldering gun with solder constantly on the tip to transfer heat.
I also use a silicone heat pad to do the same thing.
Hong kong rosewood and /or Bubinga require a slower pace of removal than any of the other major manufacturers fretboards.You must take it slow and use a finely ground end nipper ,ground to an almost razors edge.This tool is available from 'Channel Lock' ,but needs to be ground to do the job.
The process of heating the frets to remove them also heats the finish.This does not insure that the fretboard will not chip.It almost always does and needs to be repaired before fretting.
I find it much easier to tell customers that there is NO WAY to do this task than to strip the fretboard after fret removal ,fix the chippadge ,and refret and refinish than to just try and refret.I have only (one out of 30) been successful ,over the years, to refret without the full process.
With a Fender maple neck I have the same luck with a Urethane or polyester finish.But with a 1950's lacquer finish I can refret without severe damage.This is due to the shrinkage factor (George Castanza look out ) and the fact that lacquer is so thin,after the aging factor.

refretting a Rickenbacker is better left to the PROFESSIONAL or someone with the know how to refinish with spray equipment.
You also need to know how to hide the chippage without the customer knowing that it happened.This is the real trick.

325-at-2pm · Post by **325-at-2pm** » Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:42 pm

Mark: When you use your secret techniques, is the white binding preserved? What evidence other than fresh frets is there of a refret?

Thanks

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:54 pm

well I don't ever cut through it.

I can do it a couple of ways.

1- remove the old frets,strip the fretboard,fix the chippage,refret with the ends of the wire overhanging the binding,and then respray the fretboard.

This is my prefered way.It gives you maximum playing surface .On the 12 strings ,it is the only way I do it.

2- remove frets,strip the fretboard ,fix chippage,re-roll the fret wire to a 9" radius,measure each fret length and cut a section of stock size wire to the exact length and install it.Respray the fretboard.

3- Either of the previous ways ,but leave the fretboard unsprayed.

4-unbelievable luck...get the frets out without any damage to the fretboard and the finish is still entact.God has blessed me ,it is a miracle of biblical perportions!!!
Refret.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! I'll wait for a good frog plague before this will be seen.

pdbamberg · Post by **pdbamberg** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:28 am

I have a 1989 360 12 string that needs refret. Questions:
1. Is the fretboard radius 9"?
2. Any particular StewMac frets you prefer?
3. I was planning on just refinishing the fretboard only, however since Rick uses conversion varnish, Ill need to strip and refinish entire intstrument with nitro lacquer. When did Rickenbacker start using conversion varnish finish? I have complete spray equipment, guns large air compressor (used to custom refinish motorcycles via acrl lacquer and cat. urethane). Limited experience with fretting however!

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 5:48 am

You don't need to refinish the whole guitar .You can use a catalyzed Lacquer. or cat urethane .The Cat lac looks better and closer to the same sheen.

The fretboard is a 10" radius.All the 1980 to current guitars are this was ,especially after the shift from the Kilson plant to the sales office .Many things were updated when the shifting began and ended.I call the Brian Carman era the end of the re-alignment.

For frets, "Stew/Mac" has a wire that I use all the time ...#141 This is .095 wide and .045 tall.
I also use #148 ,this is .085 wide and .041 tall.

Either will do the work .

My favorite fretwire is "Dimarzio" DMZ1600U .This is .102 wide and .046 tall.

While that is too wide for a 12 string ,almost all of my electric 6 strings have this wire in them.

Glad to see that you have gone back thru the threads and checked out some tips.
The key to removal is heat ,slow and short steps with the end nips and patience.Keep some thick Cyano handy for chippage.I use JET .Get it at a Hobby shop..it is dated .

Mask off the neck to expose just the fretboard,If you need to fill in the pores of the wood,the plant uses (at least they did when I worked there) a paste wood filler.If you like the old white look of the older guitars,I use DURHAM'S Water Putty.It has Rocky on the front of the can.It also makes excellent Fender clay dots!

If you want a wood look ,you can also stain this filler to blend it into the same color as the wood or go darker .

I would also suggest you go light on the finish on the fretboard,this will give you a cleaner feel and less build up around the frets.It won't feel like you are playing the finish ,just strings and frets.

pdbamberg · Post by **pdbamberg** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 6:02 am

Thanks MUCH!!!! The cat urethane Ive used in the past is the Ditzler PPG automotive Deltron cat clear urethane for clear coating their Deltron base coat clear coat paint system. Would this work or do you have a known (proven) paint system you recommend. Also do you tint it all?? Having painted many bikes, I know that paint system compatibility is a major issue!!
Thanks greatly Paul Bamberg

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 8:08 am

I use the same paints ,but for the entire instrument.I use it for Fender refinishes and for kit guitars that people bring to me .I have not tried it on a Rick .I believe it is the same clear that PRS uses.

Try this ....mask off the guitar and remove everything.All the components.Leave the cavity exposed and spray soem of this over the cavity.If you get wrinkles at the edge.....get some Cat Lac.

pdbamberg · Post by **pdbamberg** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 8:36 am

Mark;
Ive never heard of Cat Lac, who makes it?? Where do you get it??
Paul Bamberg

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 7:59 pm

Catalized lacquer,

ask a supplier of finishing product ,like Sherwin/williams.

a hardware store or Home Depot type place will not carry it .
Ask if they carry O.E.M. finishing materials,thats the type of place to find it.

pdbamberg · Post by **pdbamberg** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 3:59 am

Mark;
I wanted to thank you for the 360 refret tips. I successfully , pulled and replaced the frets, with only 2 tiny chips pulling up during removal, using the solder gun technique. I used the tiny wood chips collected from the old frets and sanding dust to refill via CA glue. After fretboard sanding with radius block, I reinstalled and leveled new Stewmac 148 frets and ended up with .038 - .039 of the original .041 height. The only problems encountered were getting the old finish off the fret markers. Using a heat gun I'd soften the finish and get under it with a chisel tipped Xacto knife, but the
finish on the fret markers was much harder to remove than from wood. Also had 1 small chip I had to reglue on the binding. Ready to fit nut, then refinish fretboard. I tried Behlen nitro lac inside the truss rod cav, appears to be compatible. Sincerely, Paul Bamberg

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 4:27 pm

Next time ,Paul ...try using a utility knife blade when scraping the inlays.

Also try using sandpaper from the boating industry and or the automotive industry.

The boat guys use stuff with some seriuos grit that is adhesive backed .The auto guys use all kinds of cool tools and sanding devices.