Recommendations for 4003 project

[ianmatth]

Still trying to figure out the bridge pickup. I sent Sergio a PM, so hopefully I'll hear from him soon. I wondering if it would be worthwhile to unwind that 9.21k high gain down to ~7k and how people think the sound might compare to the 7.4k toaster. I kind of wish I would have snapped up some 7.4k toasters a few weeks ago when I still could, but maybe the high gain in combination with something else will sound better.

[cassius987]

One last question to Joshua, you mentioned the Classic 4 being a tight fit, do you think it's so tight a 3ZB would be out of the question, because if I could fit a 3ZB in there, I'd go for it.

For some crazy reason (apparently NOT internal shielding ), Toasters and HB-1s are totally incompatible with the usefulness of the Z-switch. Hi-Gains would probably work just fine with them.

I would just make a stomp box of the Classic 4 and use that.

[ianmatth]

Thanks Joshua, I saw your other thread about David Meadows doing the tests with the Ric pickups that showed the Z modes having little effect, and he had recommended I go with the Classic anyway. I purchased an Audere Classic option with 3 stacked knobs, and I found a company that can seemingly make a picguard with the 3 holes, so hopefully fit won't be an issue. At this point, I just need a 2nd pickup, figure out what modifications I might need to make to the pickups I'll have, get a trace for the pickguard and truss rod, and then I'll have all the parts I need.

One other question about pickups though, I think I remember you saying the difference between toaster and highgain pickups are not as pronounced in the bridge position. Do you think putting the 9.21k high gain in the bridge position and a 7.4k in the toaster position would give a pretty similar sound to a double toaster or even toaster/horseshoe combo? If I can't find a good custom bridge pickup, I was thinking about doing that, maybe unwinding the highgain to ~7k, and if I can't find a 7.4k toaster, doing the ALNICO rod thing with a modern high gain and unwinding it down to ~7k. I might even skip the toaster cover, I really don't care what the pickups look like, I just want that super clean vintage sound that seems to come from the low impedance double toaster or toaster/horseshoe combo.

[ianmatth]

Just ordered a toaster from POTR, so I'm thinking going with the 7.4k toaster in the neck position and the 9.21k high gain in the bridge position should give a good sound. Do I need anything particular to use a high gain neck pickup in the bridge or could I easily attach it to something like a Pickguardian bridge pickup plate, and is worth trying to unwind down or will the pickups balance pretty nice as is? Joshua, John, or anybody else let me know what you think.

[johnallg]

I would try the bridge at the 9.21k but if you do elect to unwind it, I would only go to around 8.0-8.2k. As for mounting, use the chrome housing and there are holes in the plastic underplate to line up with the holes in the chrome housing.

[ianmatth]

Thanks John, I don't have the chrome housing, the only thing left on the 4003 body was the nut, maybe I need the chrome housing too, I was just thinking maybe I could use something something like a Pickguardian bridge pickup plate or some kind of custom pickguard piece.

[johnallg]

Ian, I meant the chrome housing on the high gain you bought. I lines up with holes in the plastic bottom plate of a bridge higain. Part 03604 but minus the coil.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/bpickups.pdf

[cassius987]

One other question about pickups though, I think I remember you saying the difference between toaster and highgain pickups are not as pronounced in the bridge position.

Actually the differences seem even more pronounced to me in the bridge position, not less. The differences in the higher frequency range become clearer: the Toaster seems to roll off gently and smooth things out, while the Hi-Gain is crisp and crackly and has a flatter response that is probably a little more like a hi-fi signal. This is true fundamentally of the pickups but I hear it more clearly in the bridge position.

As a guy who stops liking bass noises above around 10 kHz, I much prefer the Toaster. The Toaster transmits all of the important fundamentals and harmonics of a bass guitar without string artifacts, etc., that I have no use for at all.

[ianmatth]

Joshua, do you think it would be a better option to use the toaster in the bridge position and the highgain in the neck position instead?

[ianmatth]

I talked to Chris from POTR today, he recommended using the high gain in the bridge position, so that is what I'm going to do. He also said Pickguradian made a piece that would easily allow a neck pickup to be used in the bridge position, so it seems like it will be pretty easy to mess with the pickups once the project is done so I can fine tune the sound. If I think the high gain sounds too hot, I'll slowly wind it down and test out it little by little, and if ultimately I don't like it, I'll get a custom pickup from Sergio or another toaster. I think this thread is pretty much done, but due to the interest in the vintage style toaster pickups (POTR is already sold out again today), I'm going to start another thread about modifying modern high gain pickups into toaster style pickups, as John mentioned earlier in this thread.

[cassius987]

Bridge Hi-Gain/neck Toaster is most traditional. I wouldn't really see the point in the opposite as the Toaster's biggest benefit is clearing up the tone. For me it's either double Toasters or neck Toaster/bridge Hi-Gain. But I basically have to go double Toasters most of the time.

[ianmatth]

I think I hit the jackpot as far as a bridge pickup. Some guy was selling a Ric pickup on eBay with a bad picture (I'll attach the picture), saying he took it out of a 4001 and the previous owner told him it was a modern Rickenbacker pickup. He also was selling it as a neck pickup, but from the picture I thought it looked like a bridge pickup. I ended up winning it as well as a bridge pickup plate (less than $34 for both shipped). When I got it I verified it was a bridge pickup, metal with what appears to be adjustable metal pole pieces (looks like plastic in the picture) , as the the A and D poles were set a little higher than the E and G poles, but the best part was that it meters out at 7.62k. My toaster meters out at 7.34k, so I think it should be a pretty good match. Not sure how what appears to be a modern Ric bridge pickup meters at 7.62k, but for less than $34 I can't complain. The week before I saw a 70s style neck pickup go for $150 on eBay. I put my 70s style neck pickup on eBay. I paid $75 with shipping for it, and it's up to $78, so I think I'm covering the eBay fees at this point, maybe I'll get lucky and get $150 for it. I sold my 2009 MG 4003 on eBay for $1850, so I made a profit. I tried to sell my 2008 4004Cii, started it for $1650 (what I paid for it, seemed like a good deal at the time), but no one went for it. I want to sell my 2005 4004L as well. For this 4003 project, so far I've spent $829.99(2007 4003 body), $193.95(Hipshot brass bridge and tuners), $166.48(Audere Classic 4 preamp), $155.95(7.34k toaster pickup), $79.98 (Pickguardian), $33.98(7.62k bridge pickup and plate), for a total of $1460.33. And that's before luthier work and without a TRC and case. I actually saw a TRC go for as low as $51 on Ebay (probably because the guy didn't call it a TRC), but I've seen a few go for close to $200, it's almost enough for me to want to take mine off my Rics and sell them. So it looks like once it's all said and done, if I wanted a TRC and case, this custom Ric would cost more than a new Ric, but it will probably sound way better than all these $3500 vintage reissue Rics.

[johnallg]

Ian, DO NOT try to change the height of those pole nails. The coil winding is wound around them and you risk damaging the windings of the copper. I love the 70s higains and I would have kept the neck one and put both into my bass. Just my 2 cents worth.

[ianmatth]

I'm not planning on changing the pole height, and I'll tell my luthier not to mess with them either. I could have gone with the 70s high gain in the neck, but I really liked the idea of a toaster pickup for the neck and a high gain for the bridge, and since the spacing of the neck pickup wasn't really made for the bridge position, I figured it would be better to go with a proper bridge pickup in that position.

[johnallg]

Right you are about the spacing. You got a terrific deal on the bridge higain. I like toasters too.