4001CS fretboard woes

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Sat Apr 07, 2001 2:35 pm

Help! I have a 4001CS that has the fretboard finish lifting along the width of the fret. The finish looks like decoupage (sp?) very thick and glossy. The finish is separating from the board, in some areas there is polishing compound between the fret and finish (yikes).

Any ideas?

Big_Joke? · Post by **Big_Joke?** » Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:15 pm

I have a '92 4003 and that same sort of thing happened. It seems that when Rickenbacker put the final clear coat finish on the neck, they coated over the frets and all. And after playing it for a couple years the clear coat that was on the frets started to break off due to the metal to metal contact of the strings to the frets. It appears that when the finish broke off it took just a little off the fretboard too, along the base of the fret. Its no big deal to me because it's such a small amount. You cant see it unless you have a magnifying glass in your eyes. I just figure that it's just normal wear and tear and It's just broken in now. The bass plays great and still looks great.. It's almost 10yrs old now..I don't know if this is the case with your 4001CS, If so don't worry about it just play it and enjoy it..

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:31 pm

This puppy is a bit more evolved. ALL the frets have the finish peeling. In some areas 1/8". I'd enjoy it more if I could figure a way to slow the progression. qe sera sera...

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:22 am

jnbass, are you having any other finish problems on your 4001CS, such as on the body itself?? I have seen finish cracks down near the tailpiece/bridge area on different ones, in the same spot..just curious...

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Mon Apr 09, 2001 7:53 am

leftybass: there are some cracks in the lacquer near the heel of the neck, on both sides. Greg said this was fairly common-not to worry. So far no cracks near the tail piece-knock on eastern hard rock maple...

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Apr 09, 2001 8:09 am

Interesting---mine has a crack at one corner of the tailpiece where it has raised up off the wood--there was another CS that was up for bid on Ebay that had a crack in the same spot as mine---I have yet to see one with cracks at the heel---has there been any discussion on why these cracks appear or speculation from RIC as to why it happens??..........Mine is a 1992 model--I wonder if any later models are affected....

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Mon Apr 09, 2001 9:00 am

leftybass: saw some discussion on this site about other Rics with the same problem @ the heel. The Ric you saw on e-bay is the one I bought. The "crack" is more like a gouge with the paint missing-1x1/16", alongside the bridge. Mine is a '91 so...I don't think Ric would speculate as to why cracks are appearing in their guitars-they might have to fix them.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Apr 09, 2001 9:36 am

Hmmmmmm.....Yes; not meaning to whine, but I contacted RIC about this and their response was, in a nutshell, 'sorry, man'. I also know the previous owner of your bass did as well and got the same answer basically. I have played my 4001CS MAYBE 20 times in the last ten years; it has had a great life so far. Its a shame these great instruments have apologies, but I guess all we can do is try to minimize the long-term possible outcome(s)......

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 5:34 am

Any time you finish the fretboard you run the risk of 'problems'.I'm not knocking this ,as it is Rickenbackers "LOOK",but Fender and everyone else with clear coated fretboards has the same troubles.

First you have the adhesion factor.Any sharp edge is a place where any kind (no matter what type or brand of paint material )does not stick well.finish stays away from edges.There just is no place to build up.When tapped or smacked even slightly ,this can / will pop the clear coats.

EPA standard have made finishes with more solids ....you would think that all this would do is cause finishes to build faster ,but it adds problems too.Every one in the USA is having to deal with this.

The fretboard is constantly being hammered on by strings and fingers.If the frets were not cleaned well before spraying,the oil from machining may still be there and that will cause a lack of adhesion.
The fact that the frets may be 'shinier' and have less scratches (something for the clear coat to bit into to hang on) is another problem.
Next thwe oils in the wood being finished.This is probably the least worry ,as the material that Rick uses is almost void of oils ,in comparision to any true rosewood.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 5:39 am

If you want to try to fix this yourself ,this is what I would do .

Go to a hobby shop and get a small bottle of the water thin variety of cyanoacrylate glue.
Go to a grocery store or a hardware store and get a tin of Johnson and Johnson paste wax.(it comes in a yellow tin can)and while you are there pickup some Q-tips /cotton swabs (you know ,those things you dig the wax out of your ears with!)

While you are at the hobby shop get a few teflon tip aplicators for the glue .This are pin point needle devices and make this fairly easy to do .

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 5:49 am

Now ....you don't want to pour glue all over the instrument ...right?

So,you will also need some paper towels ...just in case you don't know when to stop.

The "Q-tip" is to apply the wax along the fracture of the finish .This creates sort of a dam and the glue will not stick to it .Don't over do anything .Try this on someother than your instrument before you dive in .You can make a mess fairly quickly and I have had customers ,who have the knowledge,just not the art ...glue their instrument to themselves.

If the clear is lifting around the fret ,wax a line along one side.It does not have to look like a slug crawled across to create a dam,but you must be conservative with this type of glue.A little is really a lot.
Wick the glue into the area that has lifted.Don't use any kind of glue hardner,that bubbles the glue and causes a posibliity of future troubles.

Let it set for 30 minutes before you try to do anything to it.
Continue with all the lifting areas.When you are done wipe of the wax .If there is some glue ooze,you will need some extra fine sandpaper and some polish.Automotive polish ,not the cheesey **** sold in spray cans at guitar shops.Sorry ...I have little time for ANY 'guitar' polish.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 7:42 am

Mark the MD: Will attempt to resurrect...Salamat po! (Thanks!)

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 11:45 am

Mark, you mentioned the Rick fingerboard woods as not being problematic oil-content-wise; this is true IF we were talking the regular V63 bass with Bubinga[AKA "African Rosewood"]. But this fellow Specifically mentions the Chris Squire model, which Doesn't have Bubinga, it has Vermillion[AKA
"Paduak"].And That wood IS oily.Before glueing and-or finishing that wood, you have to acetone/naphtha/whatever wash it to get the excess
oil out of it.At least All my experiences have demonstrated this problem.And the CS bass is White as well.Must be some picky prep work to do this bass....

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 1:11 pm

Well what is/was being done for the Squire ,I have no clue .
BUT........still with all the stuff that is done to the necks ,the oil based wood filler and the scrubbing off of the excess,the sanding and scraping ,blah blah blah...I'll bet it was exactly the same prep.

I don't want to put words in JH's mouth ,but ...

I turn this over To John for minute clarification.