Truss Rod Issues

[bassmekanik]

I bought a new (old) `88 ricky at the start of the year and whilst it is fantastic to play i have had a few issues with the truss rods. They have a rattle!!

As far as i am aware it is not a serious problem other than a rattle when i play whilst not plugged in. It does not come through the amp etc.

Having borrowed a truss rod adjuster from another forumite and gave them a very small tweak myself this sorted the problem for a couple of months. Unfortunately i work offshore and the bass sits stored in its case for a month at a time. When i came home last week and took it out for a play i found the rattle had returned. I gave the rods another very small tweak but the rattle remains. i am very reluctant to adjust them any more as i am concerned i may do some damage to the neck.

Having read the (very good) anatomy thread on truss rods it would appear that they are quite easy to replace.

What i am asking is have any of you had a similar problem? How did you fix it or have you just left it with the rattle? The bass is a 4003S (blackstar). Are replacement rods easy enough to get a hold of and could i realistically replace them myself using the instructions on the Anatomy thread withgout any real risk of damaging the bass?

Thanks in advance.

ps. Sam - if you read this post this is why i have not yet returned your truss rod adjuster

[rickenbrother]

Paul, are you absolutely sure the rattle is the truss rods? A rattling noise can carry through the whole 4003.

If it is one of the truss rods, they might not necessarily need to replaced, maybe just re-wrapped using shrink tubing to keep them snug in their channels. It's not difficult to remove and reinstall the truss rods. You'll just have to work carefully, not to damage your 4003.

[bassmekanik]

Hi joey

I am 99% sure its the truss rods. The rattle definitely appears to be coming from the 12th fret area to the body end of the neck. Before embarking on any attempted repairs though a guitar tech friend is going to sit with me and we will go over the whole bass first to make sure it is the truss rods and not some strange other rattle. However i did manage to make the rattle go away by giving the truss rods a very small adjustment a few months back and this did clear up the issue, albeit for a short while.

I suspect from reading the anatomy thread that the masking tape/whatever was used, has come loose. I am hoping that if the rods are that easy to remove it will just be a case of cleaning the channels and fitting some new tubing/tape to prevent any future unwanted noises.

Unfortunately my friend does not have much experience with rickenbackers, he is a 6 string man mainly.

After posting this i found the other recent truss rod thread and there is some good advice in there about removal etc. Most handy.

[stevebasshead]

Here's a tip I picked up when working on my car years ago looking for odd rattles and noises from the engine - it should still work here and might help pin down where the rattle is coming from. It's sometimes called the mechanic's stethoscope for reasons which will become clear!

You'll need help from a mate too...and a steady hand and ear!

Take a reasonably big screwdriver and (for use on your Ric) wrap some masking tape or electricians tape over the blade. Now place the blade gently against your fingerboard and put your ear against the end of the handle.

It goes without saying don't press the screwdriver (or your ear) too hard, you don't want to scatch, damage or ding the finish.

Get your mate to pluck a string to induce the rattle. You should clearly hear the rattle in your ear, much louder than just acoustically. Now by moving the screwdriver to different positions along the neck you should be able to hear when it gets louder and when it's quieter, this will pinpoint where the rattle is occurring. Of course if it's not the truss rods you'll be able to do the same procedure elsewhere on the bass to pin it down.

Regards,
Steve.

[FretlessOnly]

Interesting advice from Steve - a good idea!

I would ask this, having had experience with both rattle and buzz in my truss rods (on several different basses over the years):

Is it a rattle or a buzz/vibration? I differentiate rattle from buzz in that a rattle comes from a loose rod, and you should be able to create the rattle by simply shaking the instrument gently (make sure all other pieces are snug). Snugging up the rods with a quarter turn or so to the right should take care of this.

A buzz is a sympathetic vibration caused by fingering various notes (or perhaps open notes) that cause various vibrations in the wood and/or metallic pieces.

Removing the rods and covering them with 3/16" shrink wrap tubing could solve either of these problems, but a rattle should, in general, be solved without the need to remove the rods and use the shrink tubing. Also, a buzz might be solved by tweaking the rods slightly in one direction or another.

[gareth]

Well, it may indeed be the trussrods, so there's a few things you can do,

The first is that you can take them out one by one and see if the rattle goes away. Loosen the strings, take off the truss rod cover, then the pickguard. Undo the adjuster nuts completely and lightly tap the rods downwards and remove them from the channels. Check the rods for damage and see if they need re wrapping with one inch masking tape. You could also use shrink wrap it seems, which I think is a great idea.

If you have to get new ones, they are $40 from RIC, or you could make them yourself for next to nothing. I just did that very thing in fact.

Like others have said though, do a little sleuthing first to see if the rattle is actually coming from where you think it is.

Here's how I made mine.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=392216

[rickenbrother]

Tapping the trussrods back using a hammer and a dowel after the adjustment nuts where removed. I wouldn't normally use a hammer this big, but these rods just would not budge with a smaller hammer!
Protecting the headstock with towels.


Protecting the body end from the truss rods with a piece of cardboard.
Notice the wrap on the truss rods.


For those unfamiliar with the truss rods, this is not how 4001 truss rods are removed.

[ken_j]

Mechanic's stethoscope

Link: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp ... ir=catalog

[FretlessOnly]

Great stuff, Joey. Is there a certain way the rods need to be re-installed? I've heard that there is a top and bottom to each rod (and that rods maybe accidentally installed "upside down"), but I don't see a difference there. Does the "top" go against the fingerboard and the "bottom" against the neck channel? How do I tell the difference to know if my truss rods are in upside down?

[bassmekanik]

Great advice form all and awesome pictures joey. Really makes it clear what way to remove the rods.

Is it a rattle or a buzz/vibration? I differentiate rattle from buzz in that a rattle comes from a loose rod, and you should be able to create the rattle by simply shaking the instrument gently (make sure all other pieces are snug). Snugging up the rods with a quarter turn or so to the right should take care of this.

Its definitely a rattle. Whilst holding the bass upright and muting the strings a light knock on the side of the neck can reproduce the rattle from the rods.

Had my friend take a quick look this evening and as i have already made 2 separate quarter turns of the rods he has shown that there is barely any relief on the strings now after the second of those adjustments. I think this proves the rods themselves are working and tensioning the neck. It also means i will need to take a quarter turn off the rods again as there is a touch too much movement in the neck now.

After numerous checks etc whilst plugged in it does not appear that the rattle is picked up through the amplifier. Having thoughts as to whether it is worth removing the rods or not. Tempted to do it anyway but a bit wary that i may cause a more detrimental problem to rear its head.....

Ooh decisions. I`ll be getting a proper check over this weekend when i have time to make sure everything else is solid first anyway.

[rickenbrother]

Great stuff, Joey. Is there a certain way the rods need to be re-installed? I've heard that there is a top and bottom to each rod (and that rods maybe accidentally installed "upside down"), but I don't see a difference there. Does the "top" go against the fingerboard and the "bottom" against the neck channel? How do I tell the difference to know if my truss rods are in upside down?

It's a good idea to make a pencil mark on them when you have them only as far out as they are in the the second picture. That way you'll know which one is which and which way they go back in.

[FretlessOnly]

But what if they are in the wrong way now? How would I know that?

[jingle_jangle]

The headstock end has about 3/4" thread showing, and the body end only 3/16"-1/4". Body end has an acorn nut and a SEMS hexnut.

[FretlessOnly]

My "upside down" question was regarding which part of the rod should face the fingerboard and which the rod channel. If the only "upside down" scenario is "which end sticks out into the truss rod access slot in the headstock/" then I'm good. Thanks. Perhaps I misunderstood "upside down" or whatever term was used when I read something about this a while back (not here, I think).

[rickenbrother]

John, I wasn't 100% sure whether you meant front to back or head to body direction. I just took a chance with front to back.