620 Advice PLEASE!

[Budgie79]

Hi Everyone,

I purchased my first Ric guitar this past summer, a 2008 model 620 6-String, and I really need some advice on the matter of it staying in tune... in that it doesn't.

I guess I'm a rookie by most standards, but I'll try and explain myself the best I can. After I first recieved the guitar my heart sank after I noticed that it had the dreaded "It's in tune in this chord but not in this chord" syndrome, something I've always considered the mark of a poor guitar I'm sorry to say. At first I thought maybe it just needed to be played and that once the "newness" of the strings wore off, it would stay in tune better ...but it didn't. Then I thought, well, the strings on this guitar are just too light a gauge for me any way, so I took it to a VERY reliable guitar tech and had him change the strings (to a 10 I believe... yes, I know but I like a heavier string) and set the intonation. Again, the same problem. You plug the guitar into a chromatic tuner and supposedly every string is razor-sharp in tune, then you strum, say a D chord... OK, sounds pretty good. Then try and strum an E or a G and two or three strings are CLEARLY out of tune, and God forbid you try and go up the neck, it just sounds awful.

I'm so dissapointed because I've always dreamed of a Rick, but if the 620 is the equivalent of the Fender Squier and I need to spend 4,000 dollars just to get something that performs the way it should, I will be letting her go. What can I do, if anything, to remedy this? Anyone else have this problem?

Warren

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

Sounds like the guitar is not intonated properly...

Any time you change the guage of the strings, you have to adjust the bridge saddles too.

I have owned several 620's and they are in no way BUDGET guitars like a Squire. (Mine all stayed perfectly in tune)..

Taking it in for a proper set up by someone who knows how is your first step I think...

[doctorwho]

... had him change the strings (to a 10 I believe... yes, I know but I like a heavier string) ...

I typically use either 11s or 12s on my Rickenbackers, so a 10 is not all that heavy.

What you describe is indeed an intonation issue. This is easily fixed (although tediously, as it is usually an iterative process) by adjusting the bridge saddle positions. When the intonation is correct, the guitar will sound right throughout the fretboard.

If you did not receive an Owner's Manual with your guitar, go to the RIC factory site and download one (http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/manual.pdf). The procedure for adjusting the bridge saddles and setting the intonation are given on Page 4. If you need some more help, we'll be glad to provide you with guidance.

Here's an idea of how I go about it.

I first use a chromatic tuner to tuine the guitar (open strings, of course). I then "map" the intonation of all the strings with the tuner before I start, e.g.:

E: -3
B: +1
G: -4
D: -8
A: -3
E: +5

in which the ± numbers are the "cents" away from the perfect tone when the string is played at the 12rth fret. Strings that are within ± 2 cents I typically don't bother adjusting, unless I know that there is an issue at some intermediate fret (i.e., one between the nut and the 12th fret), which is easy to check by playing the string at that fret.

I then reduce the tension of the strings enough to remove the bridge (without removing the tailpiece - it can be a bit tricky at first) and then adjust the saddles forward or backward according to the "map"; the rule/mnemonic device I use is "Sharp, too Short; fLat, too Long" with regard to the string length between the nut and the saddle.

I then reinstall the bridge, bring the strings to pitch, and repeat the "map" process, comparing the new readings to the previous ones, and make additional corrections as needed.

Your location isn't indicated, but if you are in the Southern California area, I'd be glad to help you work on your guitar in person. Once you've been through it, it'll be easy the next time.

[beatlefreak]

Gary's correct - You have an intonation issue with your 620. I'd like to suggest a little more, though. Your guitar needs a complete setup, which setting intonation is the last step. Once you have it properly set up, the guitar will play in tune with itself on all strings, on all frets. You can do a search on this forum using keywords like 'setup' and 'intonation', and find many threads covering what to do. You can also find useful information on the RIC owner's manual. Some people prefer to take their guitars to a reputable tech to have a setup done, but you can save money and learn a lot about your instrument by doing it yourself.

A setup involves three steps: Truss rod adjustment, bridge height adjustment, and setting intonation (in that order).

Adjusting the truss rods changes the flatness on the fretboard, minimizing the bow (ends of the fretboard closer to the strings than the center) or the backbow (center of the fretboard closer to the strings than the ends). You'll need the truss rod adjustment tool for this - a long shaft 1/4" nutdriver. An Xcelite L-8 nutdriver is perfect for this, and can be found online from tool suppliers for $6-$8. I also use a 24" metal straightedge scale (ruler), available from Sears for about $5.

Many makes of guitars are designed to have a slight bow to the neck. Rickenbackers are designed to have an absolutely flat neck. Place the edge of the straightedge across the frets on one side of the neck (along one of the E strings). Viewing where the straightedge contacts the frets shows the straightness of the neck. If there is no fret-to-straightedge contact in the middle, there is a bow on that side of the neck and the truss rods need to be tightened. If there is no contact at either or both ends, there is a back bow and the truss rods need to be loosened. Now repeat this check on the other side of the neck. Make a note as to whether the bow/backbow looks the same or different between the sides - Rickenbackers have a dual truss rod system that allows each side of the neck to be adjusted independently.

If either or both sides of the neck need adjusting, remove the truss rod cover and tighten or loosen the truss rods using the tool. Each rod should be adjusted in no more than a half turn each (I use quarter turns). Adjusting truss rods is an iterative process - The rods should be adjusted, then you must wait 24 hours before rechecking and readjusting (if necessary). Repeat this process until you have an absolutely flat neck on your Rick.

[beatlefreak]

Now let's move on to bridge height adjustment. If you're like me, you like the strings as close to the frets as possible for ease of playing. String height (also known as action) is a subjective adjustment - some people like their strings (therefore the bridge) set a little higher than others. Your preference and playing style will determine how high the strings are in relation to the frets. If you're a heavy handed strummer, you need a little extra height to avoid buzzing/clanking of the strings when you play. Your goal here is to set the height such that there is no buzzing on any fretted or open note, while keeping the strings as close to the frets as is comfortable to you.

You've already set the neck flat, which will facilitate nice low action. Now adjust the four bridge height screws using the allen key provided with your guitar. Be sure to fret each note on each string after adjustment, listening for buzzes. When done, you should have nice low action on a flat neck, and the bridge should be level to the body of the guitar (no tilt). Gently snug each bridge adjustment screw to ensure they don't vibrate loose during playing (I apply a tiny drop of low strength Loc-tite thread locking compound to the threads of each screw so they won't vibrate loose).

Play the guitar as you normally would, still listening for buzzing and string rattle/clanking. Readjust the bridge height as necessary.

[beatlefreak]

Proper neck flatness and action are important for the final step of a guitar setup, setting intonation. When you fret a note on a guitar, you're bending the string, changing the tension (and therefore the tuning). The more you have to bend a string, the more out of tune you pull it. On a flat neck with low action, you minimize how far out of tune the string becomes when fretted. This is desirable for setting intonation, a process which ensures every fretted note on each string is in tune relative to that string's open note.

Rickenbacker bridges are set to tight manufacturing tolerances. This makes moving a bridge saddle forward (towards the neck of the guitar to shorten string length) a little difficult - The saddle will tend to stay put while the adjustment screw backs out of it's seated position. I start the setting intonation process by moving all the saddles forward to ensure the fretted note is sharp in relation to the open note. Do this by lifting a string out of it's saddle notch and setting it to the side, off the saddle. Using the other allen key provided with your guitar, loosen the saddle adjustment screw. Use a little pressure on the allen key to keep the screw seated, and 'help' the saddle to move forward by pushing it towards the neck with the index finger of your free hand. Two or three turns of the screw should be enough to make the fretted note sharp. Replace the string in the saddle notch, and repeat this process for the other five strings.

You're now ready to set intonation. As each string is set, you'll be tightening the adjustment screw - The screw will stay seated, and won't buzz or rattle when you're done.

[beatlefreak]

To set intonation, you need two things - A chromatic tuner and a new set of strings. You don't need a several hundred dollar strobe tuner. Inexpensive yet accurate tuners are out there - just make sure it's chromatic. 10 gauge strings are what the 620 is designed for, so it sounds like you're set as far as new strings go. You should make sure (and take note) of both the gauge and brand of strings, so that when it comes time to change them, you won't have to go through the setup process again. Different brands in the same gauge can have widely different tensions, which can affect the neck flatness.

Tune the guitar using the tuner. Now fret a string on the twelfth fret. Be sure to press straight down, using just enough pressure to make the note true (the fretboard is there to hold the frets, not make contact with the string). Check the tuning of the fretted note - It should be sharp. Move the string off the saddle as previously described and tighten the adjustment screw a bit. Replace the string in the saddle notch, retune the open string, refret the note at the twelfth, and recheck it's tuning. Repeat this process until the fretted note is in tune with the open note (within 2-3 cents is good). Now repeat this process for the other five strings.

As a final check, recheck each string's open and fretted tunings to make sure nothing has either moved or been missed. You're done! Try some different chords. They should be in tune with each other.

[beatlefreak]

A few final notes on what I've previously said:

Some people have different methods (for checking neck flatness, setting intonation, etc.) than what I've described. Do a search of the forum, as previously stated, and get other's views. Read the section in the RIC owner's manual for more tips. You may also find other tricks for the various processes through doing a setup a few times that are easier for you.

The vast majority of Rickenbackers perform well with an absolutely flat neck. A rare few, however, may not get the desired action with the neck completely flat, necessitating a slight bow in the neck setup. This bow should be kept as minimal as possible, if it's necessary at all.

The procedure for adjustong the neck assumes you have a newer (1985 or later) guitar. If your guitar or bass was manufactured in 1984 or earlier, it has a different truss rod configuration, and must be adjusted differently to avoid the possibility of popping off the fretboard. This is important!

Raising the bridge height is easier if the strings are loosened somewhat before tightening the bridge height adjustment screws. This will eliminate the possibility of stripping the threads in the bridge base (it has happened to me).

Once intonation is set, you may find that some chords still sound a bit off, depending on how fine your ear is to noticing tuning changes. This is normal. No guitar can be perfectly in tune on all frets, on all strings, due to the tempered scale of the fret placement. Changing string brands or gauges may help if it's bothersome to you (don't forget to redo the setup!). Setting the intonation for certain strings a few cents either sharp or flat may help the chords you use frequently sound in closer tune to each other. Don't be afaid to experiment - Trial and error is the key. Just remember what you've done so you can repeat it in the future.