Advice for neck issues on a NON RIC.....

[ajish4]

I hope this isn't out of bounds, but I need some advice on a strange bird....

I have a Fender P-Bass Special, MIM that was made in the mid 90's. For some reason, they call them a "Cowpoke".

Not a very valuable bass in terms of $$$$, but it is VERY LIGHT, has active electronics, and a nice small body. I thought it would be GREAT for something "different".

They have been going up in value slowly, but still, a prime condition model will bring about $500.00. My "gem was $150.00, with a case!! Good "ol GUITAR CENTER SPECIAL....purchased on line, spoke to the salesman on the phone, asked about NECK issues, got the all clear....and here I sit, with a neck that I feel is totally shot.

Looks like it has Labella strings on it, silver threads. The guitar is like new, but this neck is bad. It even looks like the headstock has a slight twist. I have about a 1/2 inch clearance between the strings and the fingerboard. WITH NO STRING TENSION, it goes to 3/4" + when tuned up. The truss rod does NOTHING...As a matter of fact, little curly threads come out of the truss rod adjustment hole when I put even the slightest pressure on it. Looks like a standard Jazz bass neck, with an old 50's style headstock. Kinda unique.

Here is the pickle....it has 22 frets. I tried all the on line suspects, couldn't find one OTHER THAN a carbon fiber neck for $450.00...out of the question. Someone suggested I use a 20 fret neck and move the bridge, problem is, there doesn't appear to be enough room to back of the body to make the move. WHICH brings up the question, IF I used a 20 fret neck, do I just measure off two fret widths and move it? I have NO IDEA about this kind of stuff....

Can the truss rod be replaced on a typical Fender Jazz or P-bass neck? Is there something I can do at home to "heat and clamp" the neck or is this a job for the luthier? I'd like to save the neck, but if not, what is the most cost efficient option? I don't want to drop $500.00 into a $150.00 bass.

I grabbed these photo's off Google. The red is exactly like mine, condition and all...

Thanks in advance!

[jingle_jangle]

I'm not a Fender bass expert, though I've owned a few, so my answers will be of a general nature. I'm also hampered by not seeing the instrument, much less holding it, playing, it, etc...

The thing that troubles me most is those metal curlicues...somebody's abused the heck out of the adjustment...you don't mention if you've checked for straightness (clearance between strings and fret at, say, the 9th fret or so). Twist in the headstock does not bode well. Not sure about replaceability on the truss rod on this neck, either.

Straightening requires a beam heater, and these cost more than the bass did, so get it to a luthier for a quote.

Now, I'll turn the topic over to our Fender bass guys for additional comments and speculation.

[antipodean]

General thoughts:

- Cross-threaded rod - the nut is actually just chewing up what is left of the threads on the rod;
- Maxed-out rod - some washers inserted below the nut may give you some more adjustment;
- Wood compression at the top of the rod, so tightening the rod doesn't adjust the neck - superglue time?;
- Broken rod - lots of work.

I'm in favour of the cross-thread situation (assuming the curly threads are metallic), but it could be a combination of issues. I'd suggest backing off the nut and removing it and seeing if you can inspect the damage. If the threads on the rod are partly stripped, then it's the first issue which you may be able to solve by rethreading the rod (though to a smaller diameter and using a new, smaller nut to adjust the neck when you're done), though this is not my area of expertise by any means - I have no idea whether you will be able to obtain the appropriate tools for the job.

[ken_j]

My first thought is to contact Fender as you may find a friedly ear the will do somrthing for you.
I can't picture any die that would be able to re-thread the rod while it is installed in the neck but as Evan mentioned it is worth removing the adjusting nut to take a look, but I am not even sure you can do that with all Fenders. I know that some Fenders have a hole just large enough to put an Allen wrench through.
Did you try pricing a replacement neck through Fender?

[ken_j]

After a quick look at the Warmoth web site it appears there are a number of Fender basses that use a 22 fret neck. you may luck out and find a used one.

P. Bass® Deluxe, J. Bass® Deluxe, P. Bass® Special, P. Bass® "Lyte"
Some newer Fender basses feature 22 fret necks. Warmoth does not currently offer necks to fit these basses

[chrisdski]

This might help you if the truss rod is messed up, though it is pricey. The illustrations may give you a way to do it with stuff you already own.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/ ... e_Kit.html

The other option is to watch ebay, there are always necks on there.

[jps]

Tony, are you sure that is a Precision Bass Special? The PBSs that I know of are quite different than the one you show in those photos. The headstock logo should say Precision Bass Special with the Fender decal being the "TV" version, not the "spaghetti" version. The shape of your headstock is much narrower than it should be , which is the standard Jazz Bass shape. The body should be a standard P Bass shape with an anodized gold aluminum pickguard in the normal Precision shape, with typical P Bass knobs, not stacked knobs. Is yours active? The neck should only have 20 frets, not 22, so what do you really have?

Here is a shot of me with my American made '97 California Precision Special.

[jps]

BTW, mine has been modded with a BA II bridge, three large Jazz Bass knobs, Hipshot Ultralite tuners and Seymour Duncan pickups.

[ajish4]

Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

Paul, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "

...you don't mention if you've checked for straightness (clearance between strings and fret at, say, the 9th fret or so).

Evan,

What you said makes a lot of sense....I never thought about cross threading....I can't see much inside the truss rod adjustment hole. It does use an allen key to adjust, can I just keep loosening and it will come off like a nut? The ONLY other Truss Rod I've adjusted besides a RIC is a Peavey, and with Peavey, I used the washer trick, but the Fender setup looks different.

General thoughts:

- Cross-threaded rod - the nut is actually just chewing up what is left of the threads on the rod;
- Maxed-out rod - some washers inserted below the nut may give you some more adjustment;
- Wood compression at the top of the rod, so tightening the rod doesn't adjust the neck - superglue time?;
- Broken rod - lots of work.

Ken,

I had a reply from Warmoth, they said they DO NOT have 22 fret bass necks, only Telecaster and guitar. Since this bass is similar to the P-bass Lyte it is stated in the wmail "P. Bass® Deluxe, J. Bass® Deluxe, P. Bass® Special, P. Bass® "Lyte"...now I'm really confused! LOL, but thanks for checking...I'll call them tomorrow.

After a quick look at the Warmoth web site it appears there are a number of Fender basses that use a 22 fret neck. you may luck out and find a used one.

P. Bass® Deluxe, J. Bass® Deluxe, P. Bass® Special, P. Bass® "Lyte"
Some newer Fender basses feature 22 fret necks. Warmoth does not currently offer necks to fit these basses

Chris,

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/ ... e_Kit.html

That is WAY COOL but like you said, pricey....I'm just wondering if the truss rod is working INSIDE?

Does anyone know IF the FENDER TRUSS RODS are removable like a RIC's? I did a GOOGLE and all that comes up is ADJUSTING, not REPLACING
trussrods in a Fender neck. I'm amazed someone hasn't come across this before.

There IS a Fender Pbass neck on Ebay now, that says he replaced the Truss rod, but "DESTROYED" the dark wooden strip on the back of the neck..and needs to be replaced....is this possible? The only way to replace the truss rod is to destroy the neck? I found one other guy who cut the FIRST FRET off the finger board to get to it...this blows my mind!

Jeff,

All I have to go by is what is on the web, MOST of which is on other forums.
Here are some quotes so I don't use direct links to other forums....

"The Cowpoke is a Fender P-Bass Special made in Mexico in the mid 90s, downsized body, '51 style pickguard, P/J with a preamp."
"Looks like a Stu Hamm/Tele that brought over the Kubuki controls from the 90's"
"It's made by Fender. They don't make them anymore. It's was a mid 90's production of the current Precision Active Special bass."
"They were made in Mexico. 22 fret Jazz profile neck on a compact Fender'ish body. The pre amp is Vol/Blend, Bass / Treble stacked. Pretty light weight because of the small body size (I would guess) Mine weight in at just over 8 lbs."
"You're right about the Kubicki controls. This is a Mexi Fender P Special from the mid nineties. 22 fret neck, slightly smaller body than a standard P."

Tony, are you sure that is a Precision Bass Special? The PBSs that I know of are quite different than the one you show in those photos. The headstock logo should say Precision Bass Special with the Fender decal being the "TV" version, not the "spaghetti" version. The shape of your headstock is much narrower than it should be , which is the standard Jazz Bass shape. The body should be a standard P Bass shape with an anodized gold aluminum pickguard in the normal Precision shape, with typical P Bass knobs, not stacked knobs. Is yours active? The neck should only have 20 frets, not 22, so what do you really have?

Here is a shot of me with my American made '97 California Precision Special.

[grazioso]

sad to hear that - isn't it ironic how $150 bass is often very comfortable ??? i have one note to add - that stewmac truss-o-medic tool is pretty bad and will not work on modern fender rod anyway since it can be used on cold /mild steel only..and it needs huge access hole which modern fender bass doesn't have...i would consider parting the bass on ebay...cause the replacement neck is gonna cost more than those $150...i don't think that any heat treatment will help with this problem, i think it would need the rod replaced which means bigger job than $150 and it is not worth it so unless you'll find spare neck for cheap it is goner...

[jingle_jangle]

Tony, I'm simply referring to checking the relief on the neck to ascertain the cause and degree of warp, if any.

Dusan's right about that Stew-Mac tool. I took one look at it and it gave me nightmares...

Looks like a used Warmoth neck might be your best solution.

[ken_j]

Ken,

I had a reply from Warmoth, they said they DO NOT have 22 fret bass necks, only Telecaster and guitar. Since this bass is similar to the P-bass Lyte it is stated in the wmail "P. Bass® Deluxe, J. Bass® Deluxe, P. Bass® Special, P. Bass® "Lyte"...now I'm really confused! LOL, but thanks for checking...I'll call them tomorrow.

I meant a used Fender neck. My point was that a neck from any of those models may work for you and you may be less limited in finding one.

[eatswodo]

Carvin has a 22-fret neck for $169, which might be a possibility if the geometry is right:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/ne ... model=n422

[ajish4]

Tony, I'm simply referring to checking the relief on the neck to ascertain the cause and degree of warp, if any.

Dusan's right about that Stew-Mac tool. I took one look at it and it gave me nightmares...

Looks like a used Warmoth neck might be your best solution.

The truss rod is completely slacked off right now. I'll take some pictures of the different areas, perhaps that will help.

Warmoth responded to my email and this is what they had to say.... "The 22 fret thing is a killer – not a commonly available replacement for this other than I believe Moses Graphite offered one at one time. The bass looks nice however I think it’ll cost you too much to get a good neck for it."

Basically, they don't make 22 fret necks for bass, they do however, for Tele's.

I meant a used Fender neck. My point was that a neck from any of those models may work for you and you may be less limited in finding one.

I still can't find an answer if a FENDER TRUSS ROD can be replaced, and along the line of what KEN said, THE BIG QUESTION...IF I FIND say a 21 FRET FENDER NECK THAT FITS, how/what does this throw off the scale by? Can I just measure ONE FRET DIFFERENCE and move the bridge back one fret position to keep the scale the same being it is currently a 22 fret neck?

Carvin has a 22-fret neck for $169, which might be a possibility if the geometry is right:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/ne ... model=n422

There's something I haven't thought of, THANK YOU David...I'll have to call them, the measurements they give for the neck pocket are different that the Fender. BUT every idea is GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks again everyone, seems like if I can find out if a 21 FRET FENDER neck can be used, seems to be the most affordable way to go. I'll get those pictures taken in daylight tomorrow and get them posted.

[johnallg]

Tony, for scale, if I understand how that works, you would mount up the new neck, measure from the fretboard side of the nut to the center of the 12th fret, then from the center of the 12th fret to the high spot of the bridge saddles. I'd do it with the old neck on first, all 4 strings, then put the new neck on and measure and see where the measurement comes out. You just might have enough adjustment to leave it be, but you'll likely have to move it a bit.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Also, if you go for a new neck, remember SX.