So you think you're Prog...

[wayang]

(Sorry for the thread drift...I get a little carried away by my fascination with this stuff...)

Don't try this at home:


Yes, the guy dancing the part of Hanuman is barefoot...he's also in a trance produced by hours of meditation before the event.

Okay, let the Prog bashing resume...

[johnallg]

More rocking Yes moments come to mind...

sections of 'Gates Of Delirium' are pretty intense, same with 'Ritual', Parallels, On The Silent Wings Of Freedom, Release-Release (an oft-forgotten Yes great)

Let's not forget their take on Paul Simon's "America".

[walker]

I don't mind the drift. It's completely relevant to the topic, as I've seen. These samples of chanting you posted obviously inspired some of what became "Prog Rock." Yes' 'Ritual' comes to mind in a big way.

[ram]

I don't mind the drift. It's completely relevant to the topic, as I've seen. These samples of chanting you posted obviously inspired some of what became "Prog Rock." Yes' 'Ritual' comes to mind in a big way.

+1

To me that was one of the neat things about Prog... anything could be a source. What might be dubbed extreme combinations we welcomed if not sought after. Seems that some jazz was working along these lines as well...

I think most of the bands we have mentioned in this thread could do just about anything musically that they wanted… and sometimes producers may have ‘suggested’ a tune or two that just completely went another way. But Prog then, as now, is still one ‘heck’ of a of a music venue. And I think alive and well in its own way today (maybe efforts like NIN could be considered modern Prog).

‘Fighting cats'…. That’s good! After hearing Sound Chaser a friend of mine said that tune was me… I never could figure out if that was a compliment or not…

[walker]

Great observation, Tom. And good point, John. Along with 'America' we might as well acknowledge 'Siberian Khatru' and major sections of 'Close To The Edge.'

'Sound Chaser' is a love-hate thing with me. It has that great jazz fusion intro and develops into some great melodies, the structure is logical and makes for an enjoyable listen, but the instrumentation is all so busy & linear that instead of supporting the vocals, it distracts one from them. And there's the 4-****ing-minute guitar breakdown that, to me, is just egregious wankery. (Sorry, Yes faithful!) And the "Cha-Cha-Cha's!!!" - another section that seemed needlessly hacked in. Yet similar vocal sections in 'Siberian Khatru' and 'Ritual' served the songs well, contributing a sort of climactic arrival during their respective appearances. I remedied that love-hate relationship by doing an edit of 'Sound Chaser' with 90% of the guitar section removed, as well as the Cha-Cha-Cha's. If anyone is interested in hearing the edit, I can send out the MP3 via email.

[wayang]

So...drifting even further...
One of the reasons I began playing Balinese gamelan in the late '80s was an interview with Robert Fripp some years earlier, in which he explained the compositional and playing techniques he employed on the Discipline album. In it he described his appropriation of the gamelan style of producing interlocking parts called kotekan, which he had translated into the complex woven-together guitar lines played by Adrian Belew and himself. This technique can be heard throughout the album, a disc which blew my mind at the time because I could not work out what, exactly, they were doing. Fripp also said the name Discipline referred to the tremendous amount of work it took to memorize the parts and play them accurately enough so that they formed one seamless line when played together.

But long before that, I had marveled at King Crimson's unique (among western rock groups) approach to composing, playing and recording. In particular, the modalities Fripp used on albums like Lark's Tongues..., Starless... and Red (and even earlier works) seemed to me to have 'come from somewhere else'. Fifteen years later, when I began playing and listening to Indonesian music, it dawned on me where he was getting the stuff.

Here's an example of traditional music from Sunda, a region of West Java that forms the southern boundary of the Sunda Strait, where the remains of the destroyed volcano Krakatau lie. This features a solo kecapi, the Javanese cousin of the koto and its Chinese ancestors, and a female vocalist. Check out the microtonal embellishments she is able to produce, and the pelog scale (we would call it a mode) they're working in...and how Fripp had to be listening to this music at least as early as '72:

Discovering this connection was even more startling to me than finding out that Zep had been listening to some guy named Muddy Waters...

[ram]

Dane, I will have to listen to this at home (blocked here at work) but I think I know what you are talking about with the scaling-modalities. While cogitating over what Mark had entered, it occurred to me that King Crimson had been left out. Glad you brought them up – and quite and insightful post I might add. Talk about prolific!! To this date Red is one of my all time favorite tunes – every time I have seen them, I have been totally blown away. And man they can ROCK (IMHO)!!!

Mark, I understand what you type – for a while I had myself convinced that the setup of all of that was part of the ‘Sound Chasing’ scheme of things… but then I kinda decided that they had just missed the mark by a little… But when seen live (especially the first time) it was quite ‘blam in your face’- cha’s and all… sorta like did I just hear what I just heard – wo!??? Regardless I still dig the battle of the time signatures…”as we accelerate our days to the look in your….”

[weemac]

I've always thought that "Sound Chaser" is what you get if you played jazz backwards.....

Eden.

[FretlessOnly]

It's pretty hard to get better than King Crimson, even if they didn't/don't use Ricks.

[ram]

Dane, I listened and it's 'zactly what i thought you were talking about. I don' tknow if Fripp ever listened to this kind of stuff but it wouldn't suprise me. Thanks for posting! One thing I have always admired about KC is they are almost mechanical with and really cool almost organic feel... a great blend.

As stated before I think most of these bands could do whatever type of music thet want.... just Prog was the key for them. And all I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

BTW Hanuman thing reminds me of some of a couple of field parties I attended eons ago.

[bluewhale]

I think i agree with most of what has been said - I'd like to add that some of the bands mentioned did live versions that rocked and had extended pieces - Your's Is No Disgrace comes to mind.

A little late to the discussion, but in a Raw Power contest I give top marks to the "Yessongs" version of "Yours is No Disgrace," along with the last few minutes of "Return of the Giant Hogweed," the "Genesis Live" version. They must have been recorded about a year apart, Rickenbacker basses on both.

[BAD RONBO, KiLLeR DWaRfS]

then you should carefully review this comprehensive Prog outline:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-2359-progressive-rock/

Note that Yes gets its fair uppence midway through, including a rare live picture of Steve Howe playing a Rick 6-string.

mark...the pic with howe is a twelve string...the headstock is teaming with machineheads !!! possibly peeling out the solo in "awaken".

[walker]

Woops! My bad. Missed that somehow. Steve's headstock must have been outshined since it was flanked by Peter Gabriel's Trojan God costume and Alex Lifeson's camel-toe.