McGuinn's Banjo Technique

[Folkie]

I've spent the last few weeks playing along with the DVD "The 12-String Guitar of Roger McGuinn," and although I enjoy the performances of Byrds tunes and tradition folk songs, I've found his fingerstyle technique very difficult to emulate. I can get the intros to "Tambourine Man" and "Turn! Turn! Turn!," but it's hard to see exactly what he's doing with those banjo rolls in the "Turn! Turn! Turn!" solo. I can see how this style might work on a banjo where the strings are pretty far apart, but on my 330/12 the pairs are so close together that it's hard not to hit the wrong strings. I find playing with metal fingerpicks very awkward. It's much easier for me to approximate his lines with a flatpick. And the metal picks are very hard on the strings--I haven't snapped one yet, but they do keep going out of tune. Maybe I just don't have the requisite patience to learn McGuinn's style. Are there any other frustrated folkies out there?

[jimk]

Disclaimer: I am a finger style guitar player, and always have been.

But at first it was a little difficult to switch from using a thumb pick to using a straight pick, and switching the finger pick from my index finger to my ring finger. But eventually I got it.

And like you, the break for Turn, Turn, Turn! came excruciatingly slowly, I thought. Practice the break very slowly. If you can do Mr. Tambourine Man, you aren't that far away from TTT.

Fretting a D chord, play these exercises slowly for 3 minutes each. Set a metronome to 60 bpm, and play eighth notes.
P, 2, P, 3, P, 2, P, 3, P, 2, P, 3,
and the reverse it:
P, 3, P, 2, P, 3, P, 2, P, 3, P, 2,

Then switch to
P, 2, 3, P, 2, 3, P, 2, 3, P, 2, 3,
Again play eighth notes.

Then increase the tempo to say 75 bpm, playing eighth notes. As your fluidity improves, increase the tempo. Finally play these exercises at sixteenth notes. By that time, you will have mastered McGuinn's basic picking style. If starting out at 60 bpm playing eighth notes is still too fast, decrease the tempo.

P = straight pick
2 = 2nd finger (middle finger)
3 = 3rd finger (ring finger)

Incidentally, this is what I did for 11 months, and 3 weeks while waiting for my Rick to arrive. I practiced on my 6 string acoustic. When my Rick got here, I had it down. Be patient, and work slowly. You won't get it over night. But you will get it eventually. Keep me posted as to your progress. You can find my email in my profile.

JimK

[Folkie]

Jim,

Thanks so much for the suggestions on building my fingerstyle chops. One problem: I can see the picking pattern you notated but am not sure what string each pick is supposed to hit.

Would it be a good idea for me to practice these exercises on a six-string or twelve-string acoustic (which have wider necks and thicker strings than my 330/12)?

I appreciate your expert advice and will keep you posted on my progress.

All best,

Robert

[Folkie]

Jim,

I just tried some fingerstyle work with the metal fingerpicks on my Alvarez acoustic 12-string, and the neck is much easier than the 330/12. I'm eager to get started on those exercises you recommended. Which strings am I supposed to be hitting with each pick?

Robert

[jimk]

Fretting the familiar D chord on the second and third frets, you know the one.... your picking pattern should alternate thus:

String: 4, 1, 3, 2
Pick: P, 3, P, 2
Pick: P, 2, P, 3

For the TTT break, the pattern becomes generally speaking:
String: 4, 2, 2, 1
Pick P, 2, P, 3

Pay close attention to the video here, because McGuinn breaks up the pattern as necessary.

As far as which guitar you use for practice, it doesn't really matter. Because once you get the patterns co-ordinated, you can switch over to your Rick.

Glad to help out.
JimK

(Rats! the numbers and the pick strokes didn't line up exactly. But I hope you get the idea.)

[Deanodime]

Folkie,
I feel your pain! I too have been trying, and trying (and trying) to get the technique down. It has been agonizingly slow. I'm still using using the flat-pick technique most of the time and working diligently with the finger picks on the middle and ring fingers. ARGH! The ring finger does not want to cooperate! Then I find that I am placing a strangle hold on the neck with my left hand.

Someday... maybe.

[Folkie]

Deano,

How are those banjo rolls coming along? Did you check out the exercises Jim Krause recommended?

Robert

[Deanodime]

As usual, I had/have every intention to work diligently at it. Then family and life intervenes so I am side tracked and it does not get done.
I really need to re-evaluate my priorities.

I'll get right on it!

[Folkie]

Deano,

I highly recommend practicing the fingerstyle patterns that JK suggested. Also, if you can find a guitar with a wider neck than the Rickenbacker to practice on that might help. (I'm currently practicing on my Alvarez acoustic 12). It's slow going, but if it took JK eleven months plus to perfect it, then it will take lots of patience and discipline on my part to get it down.

On another note, I just bought a Boss CS-3 compressor yesterday and have been using it with my 330/12. I'm waiting for the new Janglebox JB2 to arrive at my local guitar store (won't arrive for at least six weeks), so I thought I'd try out a less expensive compressor. When it's dialed in right, it sounds okay, but nothing like those sound clips on the Janglebox website. But the JB2 is literally three times as expensive!

Robert

[Deanodime]

11 months for JK... a decade for me? Yeah, I've been working on a wider necked guitar too. Still, the ring finger is not cooperating as much as I would like. I want quicker gratification, thank you.

I started out with an MXR DynaComp and used that for a while. Soon after I got the Rick 620-12, about a year ago, I got the original Janglebox which is a vast improvement. I don't however, have any plans to replace it with version 2. This one suits me fine.

Now for my "other note". I have a couple of amps that I use with the RIck and the Janglebox. Both get noisy with the Janglebox -- or any compressor for that matter. The Fender Princeton Reverb is less noisy than the Laney but still noticeably more than without the compressor. Has anyone tried a noise reduction box for something like this? It's not so noticeable while playing a song, but during breaks between it can be annoying. Should I just hit the tuner pedal and kill the signal to the amp? Any similar reactions from anyone about the noise factor?

[Deanodime]

I misspoke... that should be a 360-12. See? My fingers are not working right on a keyboard either!

[janglebox]

I'm waiting for the new Janglebox JB2 to arrive at my local guitar store (won't arrive for at least six weeks)

Robert, it's true that original JBs are currently back ordered about 6 weeks, but JB2s are in stock and shipping immediately. You can order directly from our website if you'd prefer not to wait, although I can also appreciate your wanting to support a local music retailer.

[Folkie]

Steve,

Thanks for the heads up. I have two questions about the JB2: Does it take a standard adapter like a One Spot? And how much does shipping typically cost?

Robert

[Folkie]

Dear Jim K,

I've been working up some speed on those exercises you recommended. But I'm not at all sure how the 4-2-2-1 (P-2-P-3) picking pattern translates into that incredible solo to "Turn! Turn! Turn!" I find it very hard to see what Roger's doing on the DVD, despite the closeups of his picking hand and the fact that he slows the solo down to half-tempo. Any more exercises? Any insights?

Robert

[janglebox]

Steve,

Thanks for the heads up. I have two questions about the JB2: Does it take a standard adapter like a One Spot? And how much does shipping typically cost?

Robert

Shipping is $18.50 anywhere in the USA. And yes, the JB2 will work with a One Spot.