Recession and Rickenbacker Values

[grazioso]

well what does it matter if the value goes up or down? if it goes up and you are selling it is just lucky coincidence if it goes down well - bummer! i think it is great mistake to consider guitars an investment...

[collin]

That's definitely a good way to look at it, Dusan.

They are musical instruments that happen to fluctuate in value, not an "investment" that happens to have a practical purpose.

I still can't help considering value (and future value) when purchasing, mostly becaues I have a habit of selling later!

[antipodean]

Interesting as to how an eye for value differs from person to person - I tend to look for cosmetically-challenged instruments or funky bargains with a view to the trade off between entry point and playability. I have tended to take resale values for granted, as I'm never outlaying too much to start with....

[GSRIC]

Hello everyone....I think Rickenbacker values have held up pretty well, in general, all things considered. Especially the new C models and the 360/12C63 in particular - which seems to be the hottest "must have" Ric on the planet because of the original's use by George Harrison and the ridiculously long waiting periods to get one from a dealer. I am a little disappointed though with the selling prices and values of vintage 60's Rics as compared to same values for Fender or Gibson guitars of the same period. Considering how many Fender and Gibson guitars were made over the years and the much fewer guitars made by Rickenbacker in the 60's - one would think there shouldn't be such a difference in value and in fact a higher value given to Rics for lower production totals.
I do think (as I'm sure most would agree) that the Beatles use of Rics and of course others like Roger Mcguinn - helped greatly to establish the prestige associated with Rickenbacker guitars which has helped their desirability and value during recessive times because of the musical excitement associated with the Beatles in particular - whose music is loved by so many young and old. And of course Ric's beautiful craftsmanship, color, and unique sound doesn't hurt either!

[collin]

I am a little disappointed though with the selling prices and values of vintage 60's Rics as compared to same values for Fender or Gibson guitars of the same period.

Disappointed, eh?

That's cool by me, it only makes me buy MORE!


Welcome Greg!

[pfflam]

I kick myself for not buying that 68 360 that went on eBay recently for $1200 - sure it need real neck work . . . but how much would that have cost?

But then again, I don't really think of resale $$ when I buy, I am thinking of what I want to play.

Right now that is: Toasters with an Accent

[westaussie]

The heading got me thinking, so I got hold of the official Oz inflation figures for 1973-2008, cranked up the spreadsheet and applied the results to the guitar I purchased in 1972.

I paid $A250. The cumulative increase due to inflation on that figure gives a current day value of around $A2,200.
That is equivalent to a fixed compound interest rate of around 6% PA.

Given that current retail values over here are at around the A$10,000 mark and above, that was a fairly good investment at the time.

Vic

[westaussie]

I am a little disappointed though with the selling prices and values of vintage 60's Rics as compared to same values for Fender or Gibson guitars of the same period.

Disappointed, eh?

That's cool by me, it only makes me buy MORE!

You might want to rush off and grab this while it's cheap. ..... .....
http://tinyurl.com/ydqnwrj

Vic

[GSRIC]

Wow, Vic - that '65 1997 Rose Morris in the Ebay ad you added a link for is in beautiful shape. Can't say as much for the asking price though. He wants nearly $20,000 yet the book value of the guitar is listed as $3500 - $5500 in the Official Vintage Guitar Price Guide for 2009!

[GSRIC]

I still feel the new 360/12C63 has always been the best recession proof guitar around though, now and a few years back. Aren't too many guitars around that I know of (any brand) reissue or not, that are usually sold within 72hrs. or less when advertised....especially with the countless reissues from Fender and Gibson.
Not many people these days want to spend $20K for a guitar, especially a used or beat up one with electronics and necks prone to failure over many years when you can get excellent copies of vintage guitars with better manufacturing materials and processes than years ago. Just my opinion, of course. I'm just wondering out of curiosity - when people started referring to "used " things such as guitars as "vintage"... Sure changed the value of things!

[collin]

Wow, Vic - that '65 1997 Rose Morris in the Ebay ad you added a link for is in beautiful shape. Can't say as much for the asking price though. He wants nearly $20,000 yet the book value of the guitar is listed as $3500 - $5500 in the Official Vintage Guitar Price Guide for 2009!

once again......those price guides aren worth the paper they're printed on.

Show me a RM1998 for $3500 and I'll buy three of them.

Seriously, that was the price like.....10 years ago?

Sometimes I think dealers produce those price guides and purposely keep the figures low to use as leverage when buying guitars from unsuspecting people...

[collin]

I still feel the new 360/12C63 has always been the best recession proof guitar around though, now and a few years back. Aren't too many guitars around that I know of (any brand) reissue or not, that are usually sold within 72hrs. or less when advertised....especially with the countless reissues from Fender and Gibson.
Not many people these days want to spend $20K for a guitar, especially a used or beat up one with electronics and necks prone to failure over many years when you can get excellent copies of vintage guitars with better manufacturing materials and processes than years ago. Just my opinion, of course. I'm just wondering out of curiosity - when people started referring to "used " things such as guitars as "vintage"... Sure changed the value of things!

Greg, I'm just going to take a wild guess here: you've never played a vintage Ric?

2nd guess: you own a C63?

[westaussie]

Wow, Vic - that '65 1997 Rose Morris in the Ebay ad you added a link for is in beautiful shape. Can't say as much for the asking price though. He wants nearly $20,000 yet the book value of the guitar is listed as $3500 - $5500 in the Official Vintage Guitar Price Guide for 2009!

once again......those price guides aren worth the paper they're printed on.

Show me a RM1998 for $3500 and I'll buy three of them.

Seriously, that was the price like.....10 years ago?

Sometimes I think dealers produce those price guides and purposely keep the figures low to use as leverage when buying guitars from unsuspecting people...

I think you're absolutely right, Collin. If someone advertised a RM1988 for $3,500, people would probably be trampling on each other trying to buy it. And if the official guide has those sort of values, then It begs the question, - who compiles it and for what purpose?

I am in full agreement with the aforementioned seller of that 1997, when he says "don't tell me I'm asking too much, it's mine and I'll ask what I want." If he can't sell it for that, he can decide for himself whether he wants to keep it or reduce the price.

Vic

[westaussie]

I still feel the new 360/12C63 has always been the best recession proof guitar around though, now and a few years back. Aren't too many guitars around that I know of (any brand) reissue or not, that are usually sold within 72hrs. or less when advertised....especially with the countless reissues from Fender and Gibson.
Not many people these days want to spend $20K for a guitar, especially a used or beat up one with electronics and necks prone to failure over many years when you can get excellent copies of vintage guitars with better manufacturing materials and processes than years ago. Just my opinion, of course. I'm just wondering out of curiosity - when people started referring to "used " things such as guitars as "vintage"... Sure changed the value of things!

Supply and demand create the pricing, as with all things in a free market. Ebay currently has a whole bunch of 360/12's (at prices as low as $2,000.) Only one Rose Morris 1998 that I can see - for just a touch more than the " Official Vintage Guitar Price Guide for 2009" says it should be.

I had a "vintage" RM1998 which I have just disposed of, and I can assure you, that the neck and electronics were in excellent condition after more than 40 years. Still played beautifully. I would not have swapped it for 4 brand new ones. (not even 360/12's)

Vic

[love'em]

HI all,,,and especially you Collin,,, just wanted to jump in with a comment or two about "old" vs "new",back when I was {oh here we go,,, the old guy again },,, a kid,,, in Toronto, on Young street,and surrounding areas there were some pretty well established instrument shops,selling the big brand names,and,I spent SO much time feeling,and eyeballing every little detail of them,it was the only way for me to experience them,'cause I sure couldn't afford to buy a RIC,or,a GENT,etc,.. at 11-12 yrs old,folks were poor too, so,, the study,and the feel of them, was osmosis,to last till the next visit,I did this as tho they were my own guitars, every nuance,,, I noticed the changes taking place from yr.,to yr.,even then,and remember feeling,gee,wish I got that "other one",but couldn't,so, I HAVE to stress these two things first, the kind of finish used back then was SO different, It was a complete shock in the mid to late 60s when the "new" stuff was being cranked out, prior to the chemical changes in material, the early finishes, would eventually "melt" { my term }, over the inst.,and lay into the grain,you can really notice this effect on an old Hofner,where the grain sits proud ,of the coating "laying" over it,, as,the finish has "melted" so,,wood grain slowly is raising,as it drys out,finish sinks in as it gets older,this is,at least "part" of the feel of an older guitar,but MOSTLY,,,I can't believe the "fret jobs" on these re-issue guitars especially at the edges
Gretsch, Gibsons,well,most of them,these days,are like little saw teeth,that are not filed down,with the curve of the edge of the board, frets just seem to "end" at the edge,even a bound board, looks and feels like little railway ties,after sitting with one for 20 mints, my fingers are actually burning a bit from these fret edges, there are really just 2 things you "feel" in a vintage guitar; the neck in one hand; the body with the other,
finish changes came by LAW,fret work came by, save money!, get machine to do it!,thats the big contrast in feel,there are VERY few artists left, as in those old days, who know how to simply dress a fret !!!