Beatles' influences

[drzoom]

The Beatles were always saying that their music came from Little Richard and other such primitive rock n' roll sources, three chord stuff. If that is the case then where did all their complex melodies, harmonies, and chord progressions come from, unless there are some unacknowledged influences. One theory I have heard is that old English, Scottish, and Irish folk music may have played a role in their influence, or maybe classical music, but since they had no formal music theory or music education background that's hard to imagine. Anybody have any ideas about where all this stuff came from?

[admin]

Richard: Seeing as you mentioned harmonies, I think the Everly Brothers are a safe bet. Lennon has some great low harmonies that are outstanding. This is a very nice discussion topic. "I'll Follow The Sun" and "If I Fell" are two that come to mind.

[beatlefreak]

Early Motown/Tamla recordings were a huge Beatles influence.

[Scastles]

I second what Kris said. Thier influences were varied, Elvis, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Carl Perkins. American rock-a-billy. Their harmonies, especially on the early recordings, were intricate and I think much of it was honed with the help of George Martin. With much of Martin's early work being in classical music and Baroque, and regional music around the UK this had to rub off on the Beatles if even by accident, and became more apparent in their later recordings. The Beatles had such open minds to various musical forms that it greatly contributed to their success.

[FretlessOnly]

In addition to the more commonly-cited influences, McCartney's Father was a musician, playing trumpet and I believe piano in the old Jazz Hall days. The likes of When I'm Sixty Four, Your Mother Should Know and Honey Pie and those sort of tunes no doubt came from an early exposure to music other than early R&R. The vocal harmonies are quite another matter, and getting from simple chord changes to the likes of I am The Walrus in just a few years comes from a fertile mind more than direct influence, I'd suppose.

[admin]

The early Motown influences are surely an important beginning to the Beatles' sound. When you hear Peter and Gordon, The Beatles and The Searchers I hear The Everlys harmony lines. Excellent point about Paul's father and his influence which may have allowed the Beatles' to take it to the next level.

[bottom4]

McCartney also lived with the Ashers in the early 60's. Jane's mum was a music teacher. But I suspect that George Martin was a great influence...

[johnnysain]

"Nothing really affected me until Elvis."

"Before Elvis there was nothing."

"I thought it was beautiful music and Elvis was for me and my generation what the Beatles were to the '60s."

...when the Beatles arrived in the USA, without skipping a beat when asked what the Fab Four liked about America John Lennon retorted, "Elvis!"

"There's only one person in the United States that we have ever wanted to meet - not that he wanted to meet us! And we met him last night. We can't tell you how we felt. We just idolized him". - J Lennon

"When we were kids growing up in Liverpool, all we ever wanted to be was Elvis Presley." - P McCartney

-----------------------------

Yes, I know, Elvis created nothing musically......but he 'influenced' the Beatles more than anyone, into being performers.

[FretlessOnly]

McCartney also lived with the Ashers in the early 60's. Jane's mum was a music teacher. But I suspect that George Martin was a great influence...

Jane's mum was also a professor of music and gave oboe lessons to George Martin.

And George Martin was a huge influence on moving things forward. Not only playing unconventional parts (generally on keys, such as the harmonium), but introducing strings which later fueled Beatle compositions and instrumentation.

[admin]

Hey, how about Elvis.

[johnnysain]

Elvis?

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art23161.asp

[brammy]

I think it has to be considered by a timeline....

Teenage Beatles - Elvis, Buddy Holly, Everly Brothers, Chuck Berry, Bill Haley and the Comets, Eddie Cochran, Early Doo-Wop*, Gene Vincent, skiffle players like Lonnie Donegan and Johnny Duncan..... and lets not forget "The Goon Show" and James Dean.

Early Recordings - George Martin, Beach Boys, Little Richard, various Motown (including the Marvelettes), Ray Charles, Tony Sheridan, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis

Middle 60's - Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Ravi Shankar, Jane Asher's parents........ and everyone else I guess.





*It was the Del-Viking's big doo-wop hit, "Come Go With Me", that John was playing when Paul first spotted him, at the Woolton church fete.

Ringo in the Eddie Clayton Skiffle Group

[drzoom]

Yes, but all of these answers take us right back to where we started - whether it was Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Motown, the Beach Boys, the Everly Brothers, Paul's father's dance hall music, the Asher family, or any of the other acknowledged influences cited here, none of it would seem to explain the complexity and sophistication of the Beatles' music, which is why I am wondering about "unacknowledged" influences. The other Liverpool bands of the British invasion seemed to all have a similar richness of melody, harmony, and chord progression too, that inexplicably went way beyond all the American rock influences. I've read books about their music by musicologists and they never address this issue. If there are any Englishmen on this forum, maybe you could tell us if there are any local (folk?) music traditions in Liverpool that could help account for this.

[egosheep]

I would agree with those who said Motown, especially Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. When John's jukebox was auctioned, he had more Miracles on it than anything else.

As for your larger question... maybe it's just a logical progression, meaning the music had to develop in some direction. As you said, it wasn't just the Beatles, but other bands as well. There were a lot of talented, extremely creative songwriters who were trying to create something new. I don't think it has to be explained by the influence of others.

[wolfgang]

Mambo, ChaCha, Samba, Calypso, later Bossa Nova.
This was all very popular music in Europe in the Fifties.
I am shure the choir in I am the walrus came from Harry Belafonte`s Coconut Woman,
Lennons Cowbells came from Damaso Perez Prado, all these 6th-cords they used, and so on.

But "their" music was Rock'n'Roll, Lennon loved his first LPs (ElvisPresley's second and Carl Perkins' first). The music they wanted to make was Rock and Roll.

And they loved to sing: they could not resist songs like Please Mr. Postman, Devil in his heart,
or Money and Twist and shout, Anna or Mr. Moonlight, because all these were sung
so well.

Wolfgang