Model 391/12 "Golden Slumbers"
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Model 391/12 "Golden Slumbers"
There is a very nice Model 391/12 posted on the Rickenbacker Registration Page with gold guard by Don Adamek. The gold plating work is also most interesting. Thanks to Mark Thacker for permission to include his photo.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Terry: You know I am working on that!
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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That guitar looks great. Gold always makes a nice appearance. There was a white 330 on gbase, with gold plastic. Also looked quite good.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Peter: Thanks for doing the research. Can't wait to hear what your findings are. Actually, upon closer examination of the photo, it appears that there may even be a 14th control at the very far right of the center row of switches (or small knobs?) between the upper and lower rows of mini-switches. What an array!
I will venture a guess at what the controls do .I don't understand why there are this many given the limited things that can be done with 3 single coils .So here is my best guess.
The 3 upper switches are on/off for each pickup.
the three knobs under them are the volume controls for each pickup.
The three switches below them are Phase switches for each pickup.(I don't understand it ...there is a simpler way to have done it)
The three knobs that are in the standard pattern are the tone controls for each pickup .
Now this is just GUESSING ,but I'll bet it is correct.I also bet that the owner did not get into customizing guitars in the late 1970's when this sort of thing was common.We learned our lessons then and have figured out better ways of doing things .
It does look great and Don is a real stickler for making pickguards the way the customer wants them done .Good job.
I can't wait to see if my guess is correct.
The 3 upper switches are on/off for each pickup.
the three knobs under them are the volume controls for each pickup.
The three switches below them are Phase switches for each pickup.(I don't understand it ...there is a simpler way to have done it)
The three knobs that are in the standard pattern are the tone controls for each pickup .
Now this is just GUESSING ,but I'll bet it is correct.I also bet that the owner did not get into customizing guitars in the late 1970's when this sort of thing was common.We learned our lessons then and have figured out better ways of doing things .
It does look great and Don is a real stickler for making pickguards the way the customer wants them done .Good job.
I can't wait to see if my guess is correct.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
do I count 13 separate controls on that pickguard? (Holy smoke!) Did Mr. Thacker give any indication what the wiring on that guitar is set up to accomplish?
Terry, your eyes deceive you not.The better question is; What Doesn't it do???Mark Thacker called me Sat. Nite, and for the better part of an hour, treated my ears to what this critical Byrd 12 string tone lover could only describe as:
"Nails Every Byrds tone you ever heard off Any record,To The Wall".Probably more fidgeting to do on a guitar than I'm ready to deal with, but the sonic results are Un deniable.Most impressive was the clarity and punch of the compression, which didn't squeal and choke off any attempt to turn the volume up.His amp setup is, well, slightly unorthodox; a 60s Fender Blackface Showman head
[recapped and tubed], a 60s Fender tube reverb,
and a custom made cabinet that[sorry Mark, you may have to correct me; I'm still overwhelmed!]
that has either a 18" or 15" Eminence LF speaker,
a pair of reconed to original 60s specs JBL D-110F
speakers, and I think a couple horns or tweeters on the top.If McGuinn were to go out on stage with this now, the tone would have the audience melted into a puddle on the floor.To use a Crosby
superlative, "Stupendous!!"I must go now....
Terry, your eyes deceive you not.The better question is; What Doesn't it do???Mark Thacker called me Sat. Nite, and for the better part of an hour, treated my ears to what this critical Byrd 12 string tone lover could only describe as:
"Nails Every Byrds tone you ever heard off Any record,To The Wall".Probably more fidgeting to do on a guitar than I'm ready to deal with, but the sonic results are Un deniable.Most impressive was the clarity and punch of the compression, which didn't squeal and choke off any attempt to turn the volume up.His amp setup is, well, slightly unorthodox; a 60s Fender Blackface Showman head
[recapped and tubed], a 60s Fender tube reverb,
and a custom made cabinet that[sorry Mark, you may have to correct me; I'm still overwhelmed!]
that has either a 18" or 15" Eminence LF speaker,
a pair of reconed to original 60s specs JBL D-110F
speakers, and I think a couple horns or tweeters on the top.If McGuinn were to go out on stage with this now, the tone would have the audience melted into a puddle on the floor.To use a Crosby
superlative, "Stupendous!!"I must go now....
MarktheMD; you would be wrong on your guessing;
the truth is much more complex than you'd imagine.
Mark T. sent me a cc of a letter he wrote to Peter detailing the functions.I will not Even attempt to quote it in part or whole.Let's just say you are not likely to ever find this scheme on any off the wall guitar.I'd Love to hear it in Roger's able hands for a few minutes ,though...
the truth is much more complex than you'd imagine.
Mark T. sent me a cc of a letter he wrote to Peter detailing the functions.I will not Even attempt to quote it in part or whole.Let's just say you are not likely to ever find this scheme on any off the wall guitar.I'd Love to hear it in Roger's able hands for a few minutes ,though...
-
Mark_Thacker
Dr.; Thanks for the overwhelming comments on
my little "beast". I only wanted to clarify
what I had in the speaker cabinet. I'm using
an Eminence 18" woofer, twin JBL d110f mid-
range and 3 Motorola piezo hd horns stacked
vertically (for horizontal dispersion).
The cabinet was designed by George Cole, who
used to be (until he retired) chief engineer
for the Rickenbacker Amplifier dept. in the
80's (my former boss)....for what it's worth...
my little "beast". I only wanted to clarify
what I had in the speaker cabinet. I'm using
an Eminence 18" woofer, twin JBL d110f mid-
range and 3 Motorola piezo hd horns stacked
vertically (for horizontal dispersion).
The cabinet was designed by George Cole, who
used to be (until he retired) chief engineer
for the Rickenbacker Amplifier dept. in the
80's (my former boss)....for what it's worth...
-
Mark_Thacker
Okay, you asked for it.... I'll try to keep
the wording down to a dull roar here...
I'm splitting this into two postings -
the wording is too much for one....
By the way, there are 17 controls, not 13 as
previously mentioned. (think I'm cross eyed ?
read on....)
The top three switches (ones nearest the bridge)
control a Vox Treble Booster, a CEI-ACT-1 compressor,
and a Jordan Signal Booster.
All of these devices were made in the 60's and
were scrounged up back then.
The three round knobs in the center area of
the pick guard are 4, 5, and 6 position rotary
switches which dial in various amounts and types
of filtering on the inputs or outputs of the
various devices. (for instance, the 6 position
switch has a position for a direct connection
between the pickups and the output in the
first position, and the second position has
the good old .0047 mfd. capacitor like the
older 60's RIC guitars had installed in them.
I can take the tone way beyond that, and it
makes some wild sounds - kinda like a thundering
harpsichord... The three bottom switches are
the pickup selectors - which are three position
toggles. The guitar is wired for full stereo,
so I wired the switches such that you can make
any pickup go to any channel in any combination.
(except both channels at the same time which
is not desireable in this case) The remaining
two toggle switches are for stereo/mono which
also takes the non-effects or "cold" channel
and runs it through the Jordan before mixing
back into the "hot" or effects channel prior
to leaving the guitar. The other toggle takes
the signal from the pickup selector switches
and runs it directly out of the guitar without
any coloration by the volume or tone pots at all.
I have used this before for studio stuff, and
incorporated it here again. The three knob
cluster which looks like it might be pickup
volume / tone controls are not that exactly...
First of all if you look close, you will notice
that there aren't just 3, but actually 6 controls
arranged as an inner and outer control. The upper
pair are: inner: hot channel or hot channel +
treble boost output level and outer: is
the "cold" or non-effects level. The rear-most
pair are: inner: Jordan output level, and outer:
cold channel tone control. Lastly is the pair
on the outer bout of the treble side - the
inner is the compressor "clamp" (which works
to limit the "pumping" and feedback problems with
this compressor, the the outer control is the
compressor output level. The guitar is powered
by a 10 volt power supply which comes up one
of the 4 wires in the guitar cord. I can also
use batteries (9-volt) in an emergency....
The power supply and signal splitter works just
like the "Rick-O-Sound"(tm) module and has jacks
where you pick off and go to one or more amps.
I modified the Treble booster with three
switchable output capacitors so I could get various levels of "brightness" out of it.
end of side one
the wording down to a dull roar here...
I'm splitting this into two postings -
the wording is too much for one....
By the way, there are 17 controls, not 13 as
previously mentioned. (think I'm cross eyed ?
read on....)
The top three switches (ones nearest the bridge)
control a Vox Treble Booster, a CEI-ACT-1 compressor,
and a Jordan Signal Booster.
All of these devices were made in the 60's and
were scrounged up back then.
The three round knobs in the center area of
the pick guard are 4, 5, and 6 position rotary
switches which dial in various amounts and types
of filtering on the inputs or outputs of the
various devices. (for instance, the 6 position
switch has a position for a direct connection
between the pickups and the output in the
first position, and the second position has
the good old .0047 mfd. capacitor like the
older 60's RIC guitars had installed in them.
I can take the tone way beyond that, and it
makes some wild sounds - kinda like a thundering
harpsichord... The three bottom switches are
the pickup selectors - which are three position
toggles. The guitar is wired for full stereo,
so I wired the switches such that you can make
any pickup go to any channel in any combination.
(except both channels at the same time which
is not desireable in this case) The remaining
two toggle switches are for stereo/mono which
also takes the non-effects or "cold" channel
and runs it through the Jordan before mixing
back into the "hot" or effects channel prior
to leaving the guitar. The other toggle takes
the signal from the pickup selector switches
and runs it directly out of the guitar without
any coloration by the volume or tone pots at all.
I have used this before for studio stuff, and
incorporated it here again. The three knob
cluster which looks like it might be pickup
volume / tone controls are not that exactly...
First of all if you look close, you will notice
that there aren't just 3, but actually 6 controls
arranged as an inner and outer control. The upper
pair are: inner: hot channel or hot channel +
treble boost output level and outer: is
the "cold" or non-effects level. The rear-most
pair are: inner: Jordan output level, and outer:
cold channel tone control. Lastly is the pair
on the outer bout of the treble side - the
inner is the compressor "clamp" (which works
to limit the "pumping" and feedback problems with
this compressor, the the outer control is the
compressor output level. The guitar is powered
by a 10 volt power supply which comes up one
of the 4 wires in the guitar cord. I can also
use batteries (9-volt) in an emergency....
The power supply and signal splitter works just
like the "Rick-O-Sound"(tm) module and has jacks
where you pick off and go to one or more amps.
I modified the Treble booster with three
switchable output capacitors so I could get various levels of "brightness" out of it.
end of side one
-
Mark_Thacker
Side Two:
The compressor circuit by the way is supposedly
the same one that Red Rhoades (who used to
work on Roger McGuinn's amps and stomp boxes)
built in a stomp box for Roger back in the 60's or early
70's according to what Red told me. This
compressor is also one which has an "edge" to it. It is not
a lilly white clean sounding device. It was originally
designed as a preamp/compressor
for CB radios back in the mid-60's.
If you want an accurate description of how the compressor
sounds, you can get an idea by both the single version
and the boxed set versions of the Byrd's
"She Don't Care About Time".
Both of those versions sound totally different, but with the
tailoring controls, I can get either sound out of the guitar
quite easily. (along with a zillion other sounds and pretty
much all of the sounds Roger McGuinn got in the studio).
I've spent about 30 years researching and refining the
sounds of Rick 12's as John Hall will attest (I've known
him and his family for almost that long now)
Oh, by the way, the Jordan signal booster is in there more
as another filter/buffer, however it makes a great "get even"
device for use with an over zealous rhythm guitar
player who has a bigger amp than you do. (it brings the level
up high enough to blast way over the top of everyone else
for that matter). One item I forgot to mention is that there
are not any individual pickup volume or tone
controls. I had them on previous Ricks, and I
found that I can live without them (if you think
this pick guard is cluttered, two versions ago
there were 14 volume controls and 11 switches).
I decided to distill this down a bunch. At this
point If I was only going to do the sounds of
Mr. McGuinn, I could dump 3 toggles, 2 rotary
switches, and one pair of the clustered knobs.
That would simplify things greatly, but.......
I am having too much fun with this right now
to do that though. I like the additional sounds
it makes way too much to change it.
Also, I'm using Pyramid Gold flat wound strings
which are just AWESOME and true to the old 60's sounds.
If I left you with any questions, please let me know. Have a great day !!!
---MT
The compressor circuit by the way is supposedly
the same one that Red Rhoades (who used to
work on Roger McGuinn's amps and stomp boxes)
built in a stomp box for Roger back in the 60's or early
70's according to what Red told me. This
compressor is also one which has an "edge" to it. It is not
a lilly white clean sounding device. It was originally
designed as a preamp/compressor
for CB radios back in the mid-60's.
If you want an accurate description of how the compressor
sounds, you can get an idea by both the single version
and the boxed set versions of the Byrd's
"She Don't Care About Time".
Both of those versions sound totally different, but with the
tailoring controls, I can get either sound out of the guitar
quite easily. (along with a zillion other sounds and pretty
much all of the sounds Roger McGuinn got in the studio).
I've spent about 30 years researching and refining the
sounds of Rick 12's as John Hall will attest (I've known
him and his family for almost that long now)
Oh, by the way, the Jordan signal booster is in there more
as another filter/buffer, however it makes a great "get even"
device for use with an over zealous rhythm guitar
player who has a bigger amp than you do. (it brings the level
up high enough to blast way over the top of everyone else
for that matter). One item I forgot to mention is that there
are not any individual pickup volume or tone
controls. I had them on previous Ricks, and I
found that I can live without them (if you think
this pick guard is cluttered, two versions ago
there were 14 volume controls and 11 switches).
I decided to distill this down a bunch. At this
point If I was only going to do the sounds of
Mr. McGuinn, I could dump 3 toggles, 2 rotary
switches, and one pair of the clustered knobs.
That would simplify things greatly, but.......
I am having too much fun with this right now
to do that though. I like the additional sounds
it makes way too much to change it.
Also, I'm using Pyramid Gold flat wound strings
which are just AWESOME and true to the old 60's sounds.
If I left you with any questions, please let me know. Have a great day !!!
---MT
-
Mark_Thacker
As if this wasn't wordy enough,
The picture doesn't really show the
gold plating off very well - I had
EVERY piece of metal on the guitar
plated - my camera doesn't show it
too well, but the pickup covers,
the knobs, the "R" tailpiece, the
bridge,....everything got the gold
treatment. They're incredibly pretty
in real life.
---MT
The picture doesn't really show the
gold plating off very well - I had
EVERY piece of metal on the guitar
plated - my camera doesn't show it
too well, but the pickup covers,
the knobs, the "R" tailpiece, the
bridge,....everything got the gold
treatment. They're incredibly pretty
in real life.
---MT
Mark T.: Thanks for taking the time to describe your guitar's many functions. That's certainly the most extensive rewiring of a Rickenbacker that I have ever become aware of. Utilizing a pickguard as a virtual studio mixing console and/or pedalboard is a concept which few seem to have explored fully. As someone who also achieves countless tonal variations plus all the sounds McGuinn got in the studio and onstage with a custom-wired semi-hollowbody 3-pickup Mapleglo Rickenbacker 12-string having active electronics and (some) gold-plated hardware, I can appreciate the time and effort you must have invested in your own instrument's customization.