+1Scastles wrote: I would have just been pleased to see Clark, no matter what. I'm sure his version was stellar, as were many of the songs he wrote (not to take anything away from the Byrds version. It too was fantastic.) Clark was under appreciated, especially as a songwriter, IMO.
Under appreciated by the masses most certainly but equally certainly, not by any of us!Scastles wrote:kvalois wrote:In 1987, I saw Gene Clark play at a small coffee house in Hartford. When he introduced "Eight Miles High," he mentioned how HE was the principal author of the song-- and the way he wrote it was very different!!! He then stated that he was going to play it the way he intended-- not like the Byrds version!!!
I wish that I could have recorded it that night. But, it was much slower and the verses were hauntingly beautiful. At one point, he did stop briefly to mention that: "at this juncture, Roger McGuinn comes in with a blistering solo-- but, I can't do that!!!!
Karl
I would have just been pleased to see Clark, no matter what. I'm sure his version was stellar, as were many of the songs he wrote (not to take anything away from the Byrds version. It too was fantastic.) Clark was under appreciated, especially as a songwriter, IMO.
I have always felt Gene would have been happier with a guitar in his hands......he mighta stayed in the band and who knows the great songs he'd have written......jimk wrote:+1Scastles wrote: I would have just been pleased to see Clark, no matter what. I'm sure his version was stellar, as were many of the songs he wrote (not to take anything away from the Byrds version. It too was fantastic.) Clark was under appreciated, especially as a songwriter, IMO.
JimK
vynesmusic wrote:
That whole wacky "male lead singer/frontman with a combo" started in the 60s and has only worked in 2 bands--The Who and Led Zeppelin.....in the real world of nightclub musicians there is nothing more worthless that a male singer who plays no substantive instrument......lead girl singers?....that's a whole different deal...if they LOOK good and sing pretty good, it can take a band a long way.....
Not exactly sure what you mean by "worked", but there have been scores of successful groups with non-guitarist frontmen, starting with the Rolling Stones!vynesmusic wrote:More on Gene Clark-----he was stuck in some hoky role, I believe, as the "lead singer with the tambourine"......with a third guitar, the band would have looked great and would have had a fatter sound live---there was often a third guitar on their recordings anyway.....
That whole wacky "male lead singer/frontman with a combo" started in the 60s and has only worked in 2 bands--The Who and Led Zeppelin.....in the real world of nightclub musicians there is nothing more worthless that a male singer who plays no substantive instrument......lead girl singers?....that's a whole different deal...if they LOOK good and sing pretty good, it can take a band a long way.....
Valid points but Ray Davies played rhythm guitar in the Kinks ... and in regards to the Byrds, I've always wished Gene had a guitar in his hands even if he would have been by far the weakest guitar player of the four (including Chris). I'm not putting down any of the groups you've mentioned but I've always liked the look of the Stones when Mick picked up a guitar or the Who when Roger picked up a guitar.janglebox wrote:Not exactly sure what you mean by "worked", but there have been scores of successful groups with non-guitarist frontmen, starting with the Rolling Stones!vynesmusic wrote:More on Gene Clark-----he was stuck in some hoky role, I believe, as the "lead singer with the tambourine"......with a third guitar, the band would have looked great and would have had a fatter sound live---there was often a third guitar on their recordings anyway.....
That whole wacky "male lead singer/frontman with a combo" started in the 60s and has only worked in 2 bands--The Who and Led Zeppelin.....in the real world of nightclub musicians there is nothing more worthless that a male singer who plays no substantive instrument......lead girl singers?....that's a whole different deal...if they LOOK good and sing pretty good, it can take a band a long way.....
To that you can add the Kinks, Animals, Doors, J. Geils, Aerosmith, Bad Company, Queen, Van Halen, Guns & Roses... the list is endless. Whether you like the music or not is certainly debatable, but these are (or were) all successful groups.
Notable bands with three performing guitarists are far more the exception than the rule. And in the world of lower-echelon nightclub bands, unless a third guitar brings something extremely vital to the sound, it cuts a fifth of each member's take for the gig.
kvalois wrote:In 1987, I saw Gene Clark play at a small coffee house in Hartford. When he introduced "Eight Miles High," he mentioned how HE was the principal author of the song-- and the way he wrote it was very different!!! He then stated that he was going to play it the way he intended-- not like the Byrds version!!!
I wish that I could have recorded it that night. But, it was much slower and the verses were hauntingly beautiful. At one point, he did stop briefly to mention that: "at this juncture, Roger McGuinn comes in with a blistering solo-- but, I can't do that!!!!
Karl
Interesting outlook. I've always felt that guitars just looked like props in the hands of guys known primarily for singing. Sort of like seeing a great baseball pitcher flexing a bat, or an offensive lineman holding a football. It's not like these singers are really adding substantively to the band's signature sound with their guitar playing, anyway.dbailey62 wrote:Valid points but Ray Davies played rhythm guitar in the Kinks ... and in regards to the Byrds, I've always wished Gene had a guitar in his hands even if he would have been by far the weakest guitar player of the four (including Chris). I'm not putting down any of the groups you've mentioned but I've always liked the look of the Stones when Mick picked up a guitar or the Who when Roger picked up a guitar.
It adds to their musical cachet IMHO.
I'm with you, Steve. Usually, when I see one of those lead singers with a guitar, I picture the Partridge Family for some reason. Somethin' just doesn't look right. Gene certainly had the voice to front the Byrds. Maybe his competition was more aggressive than he was. On a bunch of the video I've seen of the Byrds, Mr. McGuinn gets a lot of camera time and looks like the frontman.janglebox wrote:Interesting outlook. I've always felt that guitars just looked like props in the hands of guys known primarily for singing. Sort of like seeing a great baseball pitcher flexing a bat, or an offensive lineman holding a football. It's not like these singers are really adding substantively to the band's signature sound with their guitar playing, anyway.dbailey62 wrote:Valid points but Ray Davies played rhythm guitar in the Kinks ... and in regards to the Byrds, I've always wished Gene had a guitar in his hands even if he would have been by far the weakest guitar player of the four (including Chris). I'm not putting down any of the groups you've mentioned but I've always liked the look of the Stones when Mick picked up a guitar or the Who when Roger picked up a guitar.
It adds to their musical cachet IMHO.
Errr.....Yes? Genesis (way back when they were a real band)? Gentle Giant? CAPTAIN BEEFHEART???? I'm gonna say that stuff 'worked'...vynesmusic wrote:That whole wacky "male lead singer/frontman with a combo" started in the 60s and has only worked in 2 bands--The Who and Led Zeppelin.....in the real world of nightclub musicians there is nothing more worthless that a male singer who plays no substantive instrument...
Well, most folks here know all about my political leanings, so I'm not even going to touch that one...vynesmusic wrote:lead girl singers?....that's a whole different deal...if they LOOK good and sing pretty good, it can take a band a long way.....
After hearing him sing "Rockin' in the Free World" with Neil Young, and a solo (w/Mike McCready) "Masters of War" on some MTV awards thing — both years ago — I think Eddie Vedder could more than handle his own on a DCT/BS&T tribute.wayang wrote:Man...I just remembered another one from me grand ol' childhood...what about David Clayton Thomas in BS&T? I seem to recall that arrangement 'working' as well. One of my (many) million dollar ideas is to arrange a 'tribute to BS&T' album featuring all the Seattle 'grunge' bands, since all them singers were pretty much ripping off DCT anyway.
(Really, I just want to hear Eddie Vedder singing 'Spinning Wheel'. Can you not pitchah him grinding out lines like "Rrride a painted pony..."?)
