Use Of Pickups On Fretless Basses

[rickenbrother]

When I play my fretted Ricks, I play with both pickups on most of the time, however with my FL's, I much prefer the tone with just one pickup on. Not just with my Rick FL's, I've found that with any fretless bass that I play. The tone seems to lose something when more than one pickup is on. I'm not saying that a fretless bass only needs one pickup, as more then one pickup will allow for more tone variation. I also find myself changing the tone pot setting more often on a fretless bass than a fretted bass.
How do you guys use the pickups on your fretless basses?

[Rickenhands]

Hi Joey!

You rawk! I love fretless bass talk.

Like you, on my fretless I typically favor one of the pups, though I'll usually leave some signal from the other pup. It's always been my preference over using both pups equally. Though, I'll use both pups if I need to play less 'fretlessy,' if that makes sense. And yes, I'm often fiddling with tone pots from tune to tune.

Peace.

[jps]

My two current fretless basses have only one pickup each, the Zon has one S/D humbucker in the MM position and it has only a passive volume control, the Rick Turner has only a piezo pickup with VT controls. I get pretty much what I want out them tonally.

The new incoming Martin Keith fretless will have two Citron humbuckers with VPT controls, along with a pull switch on the T control to change how the P control works; pushed down the two humbuckers pan as you would normally expect, with the switch pulled up, the panning goes from the two outer coils to the two inner coils. The two Citron pickups are quite close to each other and are fairly close to the bridge, but the tonal variation is varied enough to offers some nice, differing tones.

[cassius987]

I think this has to do with phase-y tone in part, because generally when I run both pickups with the cap in I don't get nearly as picky about the sound as when I bypass the cap and things are going to comb filter a little. If I turn the tone knobs down AND run the cap in-line so much the better. Many people like that phase-y tone but I like the tone to be fairly clean if I can help it.

In the future if I don't want to have the low-end filter but I want the benefits of the change in phase above hinge frequency I may just put a permanent 0.1 uF cap in-line. Seems like that might do the trick.

[Rickenhands]

Geez, you guys are full of valuable information nuggets. Man, I've been playing for so long, yet I know so little about what makes my bass work. I need to catch up.

I, for one, appreciate your time. Though, I know you love talkin' bass just like I do.

[FretlessOnly]

First of all, I don't think of tone with respect to my fretless basses and my fretted bass. I think of bass as being a fretless instrument, and my fretted bass as just an illegitimate step-child that, for some odd reason, people expect to hear on occasion.

That said, I always strive to get a "mixed-mid" sound with lots of beefy low and crisp highs, and I just can't get that from one pickup. Tone is always at 100%, volume typically at 100% each P/U and I use the amp along with other EQ and technique to shape the sound. I've always felt that you can't get the best sound from your bass without it being on full-bore, and your shaping comes from your amp, any pre-amps, and your fingers.

One exception is my Jazz bass, which has an Audere active pre-amp in it (thanks Joshua for the recommendation). It doesn't have tone, but rather pickup mixing along with low/mid/high stacked controls and switching, and I usually run it ~70% toward the neck or ~70% toward the bridge. That way I get more mids and can keep the deep lows.

[Rickenhands]

I think of bass as being a fretless instrument, and my fretted bass as just an illegitimate step-child that, for some odd reason, people expect to hear on occasion.

I felt the very same way for a long, long time and still do to a certain extent, acknowledging my preferences and my history with the upright bass. But I'm starting to feel much differently now that, after over 24 years, I've reignited my interest in playing a fretted (which I believe only a Ric could have accomplished). Though, make no mistake, my fretless is my true love. But hey, if I'm dabbling with the "dark side," why not make it a Ric?

Peace.

[FretlessOnly]

Indeed - my one fretted bass is a 75th Anniversary DCM 4003 and I do love it.

[cassius987]

I've always felt that you can't get the best sound from your bass without it being on full-bore, and your shaping comes from your amp, any pre-amps, and your fingers.

I take it that you really like bright tone, so naturally I can see why you'd want to run "full-bore" out of the mono jack, but that doesn't preclude running a single pickup. You could always wire your favorite pickup to the correct part of the stereo jack and then you could plug a mono plug in and run that pickup "full-bore". Secondly, I am one to turn my tone controls all the way off a lot of the time (high freq. to ground) so I think this is a bit more of a subjective thing about what the "best" tone is. I tend to like my tone warm and clean long before anything else.

One thing I really hate the sound of is "phase-y" bass tone--it gets associated with the Jazz Bass sometimes (depending on how the player uses it) but even pickups that are in the same phase can still comb filter and make this sound to an extent--and that's why I really love running either single pickups, or running a blend with the cap in-line. Until I got good enough amplification to produce the neck pickup authentically I barely even used it, and I just used the bridge pickup hot from ROS for most of the first year of gigging with a Ric.

However if you really believe you always should run full bore I think you'd be well-served (I'm serious) to remove all of your controls and just wire the pickups to the switch, the switch to the ROS plug, and the ROS plug to the mono plug. Full-bore 24/7, but you have the option of ROS and quick selection with the switch if you like. The resulting tone will be "full-bore" for sure!

[FretlessOnly]

To be honest Joshua, I understood perhaps 10% of that. I personally cannot nor will I do re-wiring, so I pretty much use stock stuff (the Audere being an exception, but I paid my guy to install it). I don't really like slap or pop bright, but I like my highs to be crisp, and my GK with bi-amp makes that possible without generating too much noise.

But, if you'll check out the bass forum, you'll see that I have changed my ways!

Well, a bit.

[cassius987]

I just found that sweet spot - backing off the neck pickup volume about 5-10%. You can hear the tone make a "hollow" sound; then just tweak in that "zone." And all on my fretted 4003, no less.

Thanks for the tip. No longer am I a "full-bore on both pickups" kinda guy.

Actually, what you've done there is cut back on comb-filtering! I'm proud of you! It's what I like to do as well, 99% of the time.

The mod I described above would not permit this kind of dialing in unless you put a 0.1 uF cap or larger in-line with the treble pickup to change its phase. Other than that it would be very simple. Pickup hots stay where they are; the hot leads to volume now just go straight to ROS; ROS and mono stay as they are. The grounds can be made into a star point ground with the bridge. Just FYI.

[ricaddic]

I always use mainly the bridge pick up with just a very, very, little mix with the neck pick up..

[myfretless]

I find the single most influential thing for my tone on my fretless are the strings: flats vs. rounds and manufacturers. I haven't really thought much about using just one pickup but that's an interesting though Joey. I'll check it out!

[rickenbrother]

Let us know what you think about using only one pickup at a time, Brad!

[cassius987]

I can't seem to use both pickups on either fretless bass I own without losing a ton of the "mwah" character, maybe that's why we like to just use one pickup. On the other hand it's good for plunky rock and slapping effects on top of a "basic" signal, entirely free of fret buzz.