Guys... I hope you can help me out with these problems. They are driving me nuts!!
1: How can I tell to a luthier how (or even myself) to use the truss rod system of this old bass; considering the possibility that he may kill my truss rods?
2: I'm using 50-110 DR's lo-riders (strings). I know that it is too, too heavy for this
bass; but this is what my fingering requires. Less than that leads the string to "lock in my finger" when I play too fast. If the truss rods aren't able to carry on with these
strings, what am I supposed to do? Change the entire system (if this is the only way out, how much would I spend)? Isn't there any way to make it stand with these strings?
3: A guy once told me that these older RIC basses and fenders have a problem: either you choose to have low action (on strings) and don't bend the strings (since the notes will "die" in a frrrrzztzzztzzt sound)or you raise up the action and bend 'em. Please, tell me that this guy is wrong and I can bend with low action; without any problems in my 4001!
Thanks for the attn! I hope you can help me!
4001 '74 problems!!
Moderator: jingle_jangle
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frank_rodio
Sorry to take so long in getting to this question .
As there is no official answer from the factory I will answer this myself.
Fender Jazz basses have a stability problem when using larger than standard strings .There just isn't the mass of material in the neck to with stand the tension of strings larger than .045 to .105 .I know that there are exceptions ...but this is a general rule.
As to Ricks ....I have put Heavy Gauged LaBella flat wounds on and made it work .
I change a couple of things to do this .
First I remove the rods and 'chase' the threads.
Next I made a new 'bar' and replace it .This new 'bar' is made of either Aluminum or Brass and is 1/4" thick .This helps to keep the rods from curling under when you torque them down.
I also use a #8 steel washer up against the bar so the nuts don't chew into the bar .
To adjust the rods for this tension you must 'trick ' the neck .
I loosen the strings to floppy mode and then remove the rods.
I clamp the guitar/bass off the bench with the body suspended and the neck clamped at the first fret on a neck rest .
This allows me to pull the body end down and bend the rods before they are re installed .
This pre curving of the rods and then torquing them up give the maximum bend to the neck.(we used to do this with problem basses in the old factory)
Then with the neck bent TOO much ,I re-install the strings.You may have to raise the bridge to clear the fret board ,tune to pitch and adjust ...slowly and only loosening the rods a little at a time .
Then when the neck is where it needs to be ,re-adjust the bridge height and you should be fine .
This process may take a time or two ,but it does work .Granted it is only on the old necks that this is done ...NOT the new rods .THANK GOD!
I do this on small necked Ibanez and Fender too .Although you don't remove the rods on those instruments ...the rest of the adjustments are the same.
As there is no official answer from the factory I will answer this myself.
Fender Jazz basses have a stability problem when using larger than standard strings .There just isn't the mass of material in the neck to with stand the tension of strings larger than .045 to .105 .I know that there are exceptions ...but this is a general rule.
As to Ricks ....I have put Heavy Gauged LaBella flat wounds on and made it work .
I change a couple of things to do this .
First I remove the rods and 'chase' the threads.
Next I made a new 'bar' and replace it .This new 'bar' is made of either Aluminum or Brass and is 1/4" thick .This helps to keep the rods from curling under when you torque them down.
I also use a #8 steel washer up against the bar so the nuts don't chew into the bar .
To adjust the rods for this tension you must 'trick ' the neck .
I loosen the strings to floppy mode and then remove the rods.
I clamp the guitar/bass off the bench with the body suspended and the neck clamped at the first fret on a neck rest .
This allows me to pull the body end down and bend the rods before they are re installed .
This pre curving of the rods and then torquing them up give the maximum bend to the neck.(we used to do this with problem basses in the old factory)
Then with the neck bent TOO much ,I re-install the strings.You may have to raise the bridge to clear the fret board ,tune to pitch and adjust ...slowly and only loosening the rods a little at a time .
Then when the neck is where it needs to be ,re-adjust the bridge height and you should be fine .
This process may take a time or two ,but it does work .Granted it is only on the old necks that this is done ...NOT the new rods .THANK GOD!
I do this on small necked Ibanez and Fender too .Although you don't remove the rods on those instruments ...the rest of the adjustments are the same.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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Brian_Murphy
Mark,
I have a few questions on this one-- I'm the guy that was asking you about the 4001S trussrods.
1) What does 'chasing' the threads mean? Pardon my ignorance
.
2) how difficult should the rods be to extract?
3) The clamp phase-- is the body actually HANGING face up off the table, with the only clamp point at the 1st fret part of the neck (I'm having trouble trusting my visualization of this step!)? To give backbow (overbow), I presume?
4) How much bend (physical units of your choice!) should be imparted to the rods?
Additional advice is welcome. Thanks!
I have a few questions on this one-- I'm the guy that was asking you about the 4001S trussrods.
1) What does 'chasing' the threads mean? Pardon my ignorance
. 2) how difficult should the rods be to extract?
3) The clamp phase-- is the body actually HANGING face up off the table, with the only clamp point at the 1st fret part of the neck (I'm having trouble trusting my visualization of this step!)? To give backbow (overbow), I presume?
4) How much bend (physical units of your choice!) should be imparted to the rods?
Additional advice is welcome. Thanks!
I have a neck rest that has a surface area of about 3 inches in width that I clamp the neck to .It has a urethane pad for the neck to rest on and is shaped like the back of a neck .I have one clamp that fits on this with a pad to fit the fretboard .YES the rest of the instrument hangs in the air .
Chasing the threads is taking a 10/32 thread cutting die and 'screwing ' this onto the end of the truss rods.This cleans up any 'crossthreading from adjustments performed by someone that did not understand this rod system.
The bend is a learned thing .
I have taken the rods on a really stubborn neck and curled them to almost a half circle ! then shove them in and torque the nuts .
Let it sit for a few minutes and then unclamp .restring and check it out .If it's too much ...usually loosening the rods will do the job.
I don't usually curl them this much .About the same as this ( turned sideways.
That will do it more often than not .
How hard are they to remove ?
Well on Fender/Gibson/Ibanez/Gretsch/Guild/Tobias/Yamaha/ Larrivee/and almost everyone else ,the rods are anchored at the non adjustment end.This is a piece of steel that is threaded and the rod set into it and then either welded,peaned,or just plain jammed into the anchor (for lack of a better term).
On old Rick rods ...they are a folded over piece of bar stock steel and pushed into the slot they are now in .There is NO anchor.
To remove; you just undo the nuts,remove the aluminum bar and pull them out.
Chasing the threads is taking a 10/32 thread cutting die and 'screwing ' this onto the end of the truss rods.This cleans up any 'crossthreading from adjustments performed by someone that did not understand this rod system.
The bend is a learned thing .
I have taken the rods on a really stubborn neck and curled them to almost a half circle ! then shove them in and torque the nuts .
Let it sit for a few minutes and then unclamp .restring and check it out .If it's too much ...usually loosening the rods will do the job.
I don't usually curl them this much .About the same as this ( turned sideways.
That will do it more often than not .
How hard are they to remove ?
Well on Fender/Gibson/Ibanez/Gretsch/Guild/Tobias/Yamaha/ Larrivee/and almost everyone else ,the rods are anchored at the non adjustment end.This is a piece of steel that is threaded and the rod set into it and then either welded,peaned,or just plain jammed into the anchor (for lack of a better term).
On old Rick rods ...they are a folded over piece of bar stock steel and pushed into the slot they are now in .There is NO anchor.
To remove; you just undo the nuts,remove the aluminum bar and pull them out.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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Headbanger
1)He means recut the threads I think.
2)They can really stick if they have rust on them.
3)You can use the block and clamp method as well as the one Mark describes. Either way bow the neck AND THEN snug up the nuts. DO NOT overtighten.
4)I have about 135lb string tension on a similar age Rick bass. Most 4001's will handle more than this. It's the pre walnut strip basses that have problems.
5)Use some lubricant on them to put them back in a la Rick12Dr.
2)They can really stick if they have rust on them.
3)You can use the block and clamp method as well as the one Mark describes. Either way bow the neck AND THEN snug up the nuts. DO NOT overtighten.
4)I have about 135lb string tension on a similar age Rick bass. Most 4001's will handle more than this. It's the pre walnut strip basses that have problems.
5)Use some lubricant on them to put them back in a la Rick12Dr.
I use a paste wax from Johnson&Johnson ,comes in a yellow tin and contains NO silicone .
I just take a paper towel and rub some on the rods and push them back in.
Yes the original single piece non-laminated necks are more prone to not adjusting as easy .That is one of the reasons why the laminations were done ,the other is the availability of dimensional lumber .
Chasing the threads is cleaning up the existing threads ...you don't get new ones ,it just takes any folded edges of the thread and reshapes them as brand new.
I just take a paper towel and rub some on the rods and push them back in.
Yes the original single piece non-laminated necks are more prone to not adjusting as easy .That is one of the reasons why the laminations were done ,the other is the availability of dimensional lumber .
Chasing the threads is cleaning up the existing threads ...you don't get new ones ,it just takes any folded edges of the thread and reshapes them as brand new.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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Brian_Murphy
Thanks for the information, guys. I don't have an EXTREME problem with the neck condition currently, but I do have room to apply this remedy. I surmised as much about the neck strength on these laminated necks relative to the older ones, although it is very comforting to hear it from both of you as well. I have a single-piece maple neck on my Carvin LB75, and I have to adjust it every couple weeks!! I really like it, but next time I order a Carvin, I'll get the 5 piece neck--that's GOTTA help.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
If you really want to stay away from constant adjusting then stay away from figured maple necks .The wood is schizophrenic .As the grain curls around every direction ,it has a poor memory as to which way to "Go" .And I have seen this on some of the most beautiful guitars made .It does not matter who makes it .
Now this is not always 100% the case ,but it sure rises to the occasion more often than not .
Now this is not always 100% the case ,but it sure rises to the occasion more often than not .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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Bob_Moran
Yes they are .
This is from tightening them as tight as possible without knowing how this type of rod system works.
As the rods settle ,they curl down.I know that sounds weird...it is !
The aluminum bar that they pass though is most likely history.
I make mine out of 1/4" brass stock and then use #6 steel washers .The extra thickness helps to hold the rods straight as they get torqued.
You should aim him at this forum to checkout the original posting notes on how not to adjust Rick truss rods.That will help him and if he is confused ....have him post a note here.
The rods should not be forced back to straight without installing a clamp and a caul at the area between the nut and the first fret.If he tries to unbend the rods ,he will pop the fretboard !
He may need to 'chase' the threads.That means run a 10/32 thread die onto the rods and clean up the threads.
This is from tightening them as tight as possible without knowing how this type of rod system works.
As the rods settle ,they curl down.I know that sounds weird...it is !
The aluminum bar that they pass though is most likely history.
I make mine out of 1/4" brass stock and then use #6 steel washers .The extra thickness helps to hold the rods straight as they get torqued.
You should aim him at this forum to checkout the original posting notes on how not to adjust Rick truss rods.That will help him and if he is confused ....have him post a note here.
The rods should not be forced back to straight without installing a clamp and a caul at the area between the nut and the first fret.If he tries to unbend the rods ,he will pop the fretboard !
He may need to 'chase' the threads.That means run a 10/32 thread die onto the rods and clean up the threads.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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Bob_Moran
Sorry ..I have no idea,perhaps someone else does.
or go to .... http://www.voxtalks.com
ask Tom + Trig I believe he lives in the NY,NY area
or go to .... http://www.voxtalks.com
ask Tom + Trig I believe he lives in the NY,NY area
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Guy in Staten Island, NY who may be able to help:
[email protected]
I've never personally used him but he has been recommended to me on more than one occasion.
[email protected]
I've never personally used him but he has been recommended to me on more than one occasion.
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Bob_Moran