Mixed Feelings
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: Mixed Feelings
Vic, I've always believed that a man's word is his bond. Welcome to the forum.
'96 1997 LH MG
'98 360 LH MG
'00 360/12 Carl Wilson LH FG
'07 730S Shiloh LH
'98 360 LH MG
'00 360/12 Carl Wilson LH FG
'07 730S Shiloh LH
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martin halstead
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Re: Mixed Feelings
"I no longer wish to keep it. I have no wish to own an instrument that is worth such an obscene amount of money as it seems to be from the offer I have just received. I simply wouldn't know what to do with it, - too valuable to risk damaging it. I was much happier with it when I didn't know what it was worth. 
"
I fully understand the feeling, About 20 years ago I paid $350 for a 1966 model 4005, and used to merrily drag it around to gigs where I'd bump it on things without going "oh my God." Than it inexorably became worth more and more, and now It just hides in a case in the closet.
"I fully understand the feeling, About 20 years ago I paid $350 for a 1966 model 4005, and used to merrily drag it around to gigs where I'd bump it on things without going "oh my God." Than it inexorably became worth more and more, and now It just hides in a case in the closet.
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jingle_jangle
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Re: Mixed Feelings
I have a friend, an architect, who is absolutely nutz for DB-4s. When his Mom passed away and left him a nice bit of money back in '81, he used a part of the money to acquire one each of his dream cars--a DB-4 coupe and a DB-4 convertible. As I recall, together they cost him around $65K back then.
By 1989, they were appraised at the height of the exotic car bubble, at $300K and $750K respectively, if memory serves me. At any rate, he could not afford the insurance at this point, so he stored them and only drove them a couple of miles a month to keep the fluids and seals fresh.
The bubble broke in the early '90s, and they're again worth in today's dollars about what they were in '81. They're insured, and he's having a blast.
God help us if we ever have a Rickenbacker bubble...
By 1989, they were appraised at the height of the exotic car bubble, at $300K and $750K respectively, if memory serves me. At any rate, he could not afford the insurance at this point, so he stored them and only drove them a couple of miles a month to keep the fluids and seals fresh.
The bubble broke in the early '90s, and they're again worth in today's dollars about what they were in '81. They're insured, and he's having a blast.
God help us if we ever have a Rickenbacker bubble...
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8mileshigher
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Re: Mixed Feelings
jingle_jangle wrote:
God help us if we ever have a Rickenbacker bubble...
Not to worry, we're all players - not collectors, according to the RRF poll taking place at the moment.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=394500&start=0
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jingle_jangle
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Re: Mixed Feelings
Not so fast, Rich... 
Majority are players and collectors.
It's the collectors (whether players or not, and very few are not!) and vintage dealers who drive the market. Demand for a certain instrument is usually sparked by its use and promotion by a visible musician with a solid fan base. Couple that with the instrument being rare and/or unusual, and you've got the old supply and demand thing.
But the oddities beg examination...by most accounts, Gibson made something like 1500+ Les Paul Deluxes between 1958 and 1960. According to Smith, there were less than 100 Rickenbacker 325s made between '58 and '66. The Ricks are worth, on average, 7%-10% of the Gibsons, with the probable exception of Lennon's 325 (V81), which would bring many millions if it ever came up for sale.
Which it won't.
Why? Supply and demand, of course. Whereas the Beatles' use of Rickenbackers in their early years of fame kept the Company rolling along quite nicely, thank you, the actual number of vintage 325s produced, kept visibility low and demand lower for this model. Back in the '70s, when the vintage guitar collector model was beginning to scoot along, lots of popular guitarists played early LP Deluxes. I remember when a friend in Chicago--a dealer-collector who was a CPD detective in his "day" job--sold a LP Deluxe for a bit over $5K and I was flabbergasted that an old LP could be worth that much...
Similar thing with Strats. Seemingly everybody played one at one time or another, making the oddballs and celebrity-owned ones very sought after. Now the Strat price bubble has dragged up less "desirable" Fender models, like my personal favorite '50s Duo-Sonics, from the $500 range in the late '90s, up to the $2200 range where they're situated at this time. Even the previously-undesirable three-screw Strats are bringing comfortable prices...
Majority are players and collectors.
It's the collectors (whether players or not, and very few are not!) and vintage dealers who drive the market. Demand for a certain instrument is usually sparked by its use and promotion by a visible musician with a solid fan base. Couple that with the instrument being rare and/or unusual, and you've got the old supply and demand thing.
But the oddities beg examination...by most accounts, Gibson made something like 1500+ Les Paul Deluxes between 1958 and 1960. According to Smith, there were less than 100 Rickenbacker 325s made between '58 and '66. The Ricks are worth, on average, 7%-10% of the Gibsons, with the probable exception of Lennon's 325 (V81), which would bring many millions if it ever came up for sale.
Which it won't.
Why? Supply and demand, of course. Whereas the Beatles' use of Rickenbackers in their early years of fame kept the Company rolling along quite nicely, thank you, the actual number of vintage 325s produced, kept visibility low and demand lower for this model. Back in the '70s, when the vintage guitar collector model was beginning to scoot along, lots of popular guitarists played early LP Deluxes. I remember when a friend in Chicago--a dealer-collector who was a CPD detective in his "day" job--sold a LP Deluxe for a bit over $5K and I was flabbergasted that an old LP could be worth that much...
Similar thing with Strats. Seemingly everybody played one at one time or another, making the oddballs and celebrity-owned ones very sought after. Now the Strat price bubble has dragged up less "desirable" Fender models, like my personal favorite '50s Duo-Sonics, from the $500 range in the late '90s, up to the $2200 range where they're situated at this time. Even the previously-undesirable three-screw Strats are bringing comfortable prices...
Re: Mixed Feelings
Vic,
Best wishes to you down under.
Let me add a few words on the subject of selling "collectors item" guitars.
I used to own the 60s RM 1999 that belonged to Maurice Gibb.(now in the hands of Wints...Hi Andy)
I bought it for £250 in the late 70s and even though I knew it probably was the Bee Gees bass,at the time no one had all the ways of proving
that absoloutely that we have now with the web.The Bee Gees werent that big in the charts either at the time so it was no big deal.
Its provenance etc. was of no importance to me and the vintage guitar market was almost no existent..hence the low price of an RM (around £75 less than a new one!).
All that mattered to me was that apart from being painted white the bass was all original and sounded like no other 4001 I had played then or now and having looked for one like it for a few years I was glad to have finally found a 60s bass like the one that Chris Squire played.
I stupidly sold it a few years later in a rush to pay my bills when I got the sack from my job. When my brother in the RAF heard about it he offered me the money to buy it back from the shop but it had gone.
So much regret over losing that bass I cant even begin to tell you.
So there you have one scenario of selling an instrument that I couldnt think about affording today and as you point out,how could you gig clubs etc. and insure it on the road without getting an ulcer with the worry even if I bought it back now?
Not content with that I bought yet another 60s RM in the 80s ( all original minus the horse shoe pickup) this time for £400 and Rickenbacker supplied me with a re-issue pickup so that went gigging with me for a few years and I enjoyed it as my main stage bass.
In 1991 I bought a 4001CS so the RM stayed at home because it was showing its age and I didnt want to damage it..plus the CS was (and still is) phenomenal.
So there you have another scenario of a vintage bass doing nothing in its case and I buy basses to play not to collect.
I sold the RM for a decent profit and we went to Canada to visit my father in law on the proceeds.
Heres the rub..I then found out that the serial number of the RM I just sold was...the next number to Maccas!
I didnt know that at the time but what the heck.
Granted today I could sell that bass for a mint if I had kept it but we couldnt visit my wifes dad on the proceeds.... because he isnt around anymore.
So...no regrets on that one.
Vic,
You do what you feel is right with your guitar and enjoy the fact that it gave you years of playing enjoyment and enjoy the proceeds of its sale.
Life is too short.
Pete.
Best wishes to you down under.
Let me add a few words on the subject of selling "collectors item" guitars.
I used to own the 60s RM 1999 that belonged to Maurice Gibb.(now in the hands of Wints...Hi Andy)
I bought it for £250 in the late 70s and even though I knew it probably was the Bee Gees bass,at the time no one had all the ways of proving
that absoloutely that we have now with the web.The Bee Gees werent that big in the charts either at the time so it was no big deal.
Its provenance etc. was of no importance to me and the vintage guitar market was almost no existent..hence the low price of an RM (around £75 less than a new one!).
All that mattered to me was that apart from being painted white the bass was all original and sounded like no other 4001 I had played then or now and having looked for one like it for a few years I was glad to have finally found a 60s bass like the one that Chris Squire played.
I stupidly sold it a few years later in a rush to pay my bills when I got the sack from my job. When my brother in the RAF heard about it he offered me the money to buy it back from the shop but it had gone.
So much regret over losing that bass I cant even begin to tell you.
So there you have one scenario of selling an instrument that I couldnt think about affording today and as you point out,how could you gig clubs etc. and insure it on the road without getting an ulcer with the worry even if I bought it back now?
Not content with that I bought yet another 60s RM in the 80s ( all original minus the horse shoe pickup) this time for £400 and Rickenbacker supplied me with a re-issue pickup so that went gigging with me for a few years and I enjoyed it as my main stage bass.
In 1991 I bought a 4001CS so the RM stayed at home because it was showing its age and I didnt want to damage it..plus the CS was (and still is) phenomenal.
So there you have another scenario of a vintage bass doing nothing in its case and I buy basses to play not to collect.
I sold the RM for a decent profit and we went to Canada to visit my father in law on the proceeds.
Heres the rub..I then found out that the serial number of the RM I just sold was...the next number to Maccas!
I didnt know that at the time but what the heck.
Granted today I could sell that bass for a mint if I had kept it but we couldnt visit my wifes dad on the proceeds.... because he isnt around anymore.
So...no regrets on that one.
Vic,
You do what you feel is right with your guitar and enjoy the fact that it gave you years of playing enjoyment and enjoy the proceeds of its sale.
Life is too short.
Pete.
Re: Mixed Feelings
Super post Pete...
Re: Mixed Feelings
Hi Vic!
Don't ever be squeamish about mentioning Gretsches on the Rick forum. Remember, when you put a Gretsch and a Rickenbacker in a blender you get jangle parfait. Try that with a Strat and a Paul. Not the same, mon ami!
Don't ever be squeamish about mentioning Gretsches on the Rick forum. Remember, when you put a Gretsch and a Rickenbacker in a blender you get jangle parfait. Try that with a Strat and a Paul. Not the same, mon ami!
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fabandgear
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Re: Mixed Feelings
GRETSCH, GRETSCH, GRETSCH!!! (hee hee hee!) RICKENBACKER!!!tracy wrote:Hi Vic!
Don't ever be squeamish about mentioning Gretsches on the Rick forum. Remember, when you put a Gretsch and a Rickenbacker in a blender you get jangle parfait. Try that with a Strat and a Paul. Not the same, mon ami!
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