haw wrote:
Sometime after that though the tone changes - it doesn't have it in the Star Licks video, (...)
On the starlicks video Chris' RM sounds very weird. I can't say it's the bass itself - the audio post production or the way they captured the bass to the tape is suspicious. He has a funny big jack inserted on the bass. I suspect it was a direct injection to a DI or pre-amp that was available in the studio and not Chris own material. The tone obviously suffered.
I suspect Chris didn't hear the result before it was released otherwise how could that final Amazing Grace come out without any bass pedals on the mix? I always get bummed how usual live Yes recordings come with the pedals mixed so low... but on starlicks it's zero.
I always thought that the tone change had more to do with the pickups degaussing and that he has moved away from so much of the treble pickup in the mix (and we know that the horse was out of action for a time) and therefore less Marshall amp in the mix. (I think the neck pickup is Ampeg powered)
It,s most noticable on "Open your Eyes" that it seems to be only the toaster in the mix.
No flatwounds, just Rotosound swing bass in need of a change.
At the moment it has 45,60,80,105 Daddarios on it, but I much prefer the Rotosounds....
Mine sounds like Chris's bass "now". Yours, Miguel sounds like Chris's bass "then", and my one can't do that growl.
I think the ageing timber may come into play as well...
Between us we have sound covered.... (sort of)
Yes you're right Eden, now that I think of it - reminds me of Chris sound *live* and I just saw Yes on the OYE tour and beyond. Now that's even more interesting how the intrinsic bass timbre may change with age.
I never liked D'addarios either... sounds too "generic". They have one good thing though - many gauges that you can buy in separate like piccolo / fender VI or octave strings ... The prices for the 8-string swingbass set is too much for me so I can use one of my favourite 4 string sets along with the octaves from them.
Interesting discussion, sorry I was away with a blown monitor (computer, that is) and missed a few days (also a holiday weekend).
The change in Chris' tone over the years may well be due the action being higher, but I suspect it has more to do with a mellower approach to songwriting, just natural as an artist matures. I don't think the HS was ever out of action for a tour or album, because Chris has always run in stereo and would certainly have corrected that situation before using the bass for a session or gig. My understanding of the "broken HS lead" was that it was on the heels of another repair.
After Tormato, Chris started using a lot more basses and the RM didn't get top billing like it had in the 70's (of course, he always used a variety of basses). 90125 was mainly the Maroudian, BG was the Tobias, Union ??? and I can't ever seem to FIND Chris on Talk, at least not like on previous albums, as Talk was mainly Trevor and Jon. When the classic lineup reformed in 1996, the focus was more on vocals (IMO) and less on instumental firepower as we had seen in the 70's. Steve, especially, changing to a much cleaner tone than he had ever really used in the heyday. So, I don't think it's really possible to compare the sound of the RM today to what it was in the 1970's epic pieces, as so many other factors have to be considered.
When I hear it in concert, as I have quite a bit recently, my ears tell me "Chris Squire and his RM 1999". He still sounds fantastic!
Was it? It was on "The Owner" but where else? "Changes" and "Hearts" were the 8-string, Rick was on "Hold On" and "It Can Happen", Elektra was on "Cinema", "Leave It" and "City Of Love" and to me, "Our Songs" sounds like the Thunderbird.
Oops, I think you got me there, that all seems correct. My main point is that the RM was not the main bass at that particular point in time. Recently Chris has been using the Elektra on OOALH in concert as well.
Just to chip in here..
Over the years Chris used different amp and effects set ups on stage and in recording which must have had a great impact on his sound.
Having said that (as Sinefeld would say)..
My mono setup on the RMs (over the years I have owned three of them) through Ampeg Fender Hiwatt and even cheap Ohm and HH transistor bass amps produced the same tones you hear on YES, Time And A word albums and the sound of Squires bass on Yessongs.
Its definitely the tone of the bass itself that comes through on the earlier Yes stuff (21 fretter notwithstanding) and I think the more technology that came between the jack plug and the speakers of Chris's bass sound the more distance there was from the straight ahead RM sound.
I had a sound with DH163 that was identical to the sound on the Yes version of America by just plugging it straight into a 1977 Fender Bassman 100 and matching 4X12 with full on treble tone on the HS and about 50% tone on the neck.I think that America and the Close To The Edge album had the quintessential gutsy RM sound.
I thought that the best live sound Chris had was during the TFTO,Relayer and GFTO/Tormatotours.The PA systems on recent Yes tours into the 2000s seem to be all about processing and the classic Yes live sound got a bit snarled up in there. I get the feeling that technology and computer controls of sound systems in particular have ruined many live concerts these days plus its hard to tell whether a guy is playing a 58 Les Paul or a home made copy through a Line 6 pedal board by the time all the PA racks have sucked out the "liveness" from the bands sound.All I am saying is that the raw sound of classic instruments tends to get overlooked by a lot of sound guys these days so who knows what Chris's RM really sounds like.
On the Star licks video it sounds like Chris has the neck pick up at a higher vol than the bridge ...did he have the pickup switch pulled upwards? .
The action does look a bit high in pictures but without getting the bass into a neutral pair of hands we cant say for sure if the guitar has lost a lot of its bite.
Age and so called mojo might have had negative effects also.
Has anyone any way of contacting Chris's bass tech for an insight into any of this?
Keep up the thread,
It looks like I should get over to Andys and demo what I think is the classic RM sound!
Going by everyones comments (and I recon they are all correct), it's probably fair to say that some of the change in sound is the instrument ageing, some of it is the choice in amplification, but most of it would be a maturing of style, and a change in whar Chris wanted to hear out of the bass (and all his basses)
I may be going against the grain a bit by favouring what his bass sounds like now, it sounds a lot friendlier but that hint of malevolence still hides under the surface. And live it still sounds supercharged! (providing that it is high enough in the mix)
Full credit to both Chris and Steve for standing by the instruments that helped shape their distinctive sounds!
Pete - I'm not sure Richard Davis has been his tech for a number of years now, but he would know pretty much everything about the RM and the rest of the basses from 1970 to about ten years ago. Nick Beggs of Kajagoogoo interviewed Squire 3 or 4 years ago for Bass Guitar Magazine and got to actually play the bass so he's probably as good a person as any to advise as to whether the action is still low-ish or if Chris is able to shoot off arrows from the RM inbetween gigs. I've pinged an email to his website so fingers crossed he comes back. He may even lurk on here anyway, such is the power of the Rick.
Chris' style has definitely changed over the years, but across it range of basses you can instantly tell it's him - I remember being in a record shop one day and "New World" off Conspiracy's second album came on. I'd never heard it before but I knew within the first three seconds of the song who was playing bass! These days I've noticed in a lot of boots and from seeing him live he's fond of a bit of flanger (aside from the Electra). He also uses a lot of slow hand vibrato on things like the long notes at the beginning of CTTE.
weemac wrote:I always thought that the tone change had more to do with the pickups degaussing and that he has moved away from so much of the treble pickup in the mix (and we know that the horse was out of action for a time) and therefore less Marshall amp in the mix. (I think the neck pickup is Ampeg powered)
It,s most noticable on "Open your Eyes" that it seems to be only the toaster in the mix.
When you hear Chris Squire, you know its him playing, there's no denying that.
I think his modern tone is a little more "mid-scooped" these days. Still aggressive, and great sounding, but not quite as raw, just a little more "processed" sounding.
