Bridge High gain compared to Ressuie Horse shoe questions?

[wim]

Always an interesting subject! I have three Ric basses, a 4003 BBR, '98 V63 and '82 4001S. I removed the HG's from the '82 and replaced them with a RIHS and toaster. My analysis: The 4003 is the loudest and the pickups are closer in overall output than the V or the S. The V HS is warm and mellow, while the RIHS on the S is very clean, bright, deep, like low strings on a grand piano sound. I prefer the S sound best. Tone is always subjective in description, so the best I can offer is that the 4003 with HG is "Full", the V63 is "Warm" and the 4001S is "Bright". One of the things I love most about Ric basses is how all three can sound different, yet all three clearly sound like Rics. I'm sure most of you know what I mean by that and it's the reason that RAS can strike at any time

I saved the following response from John Hall a few years ago regarding this very subject. Here is the question and his response. I believe it is from this forum...

John Hall, RIC CEE post.

Posted: 6/5/2006 8:16:00 AM

quote: Apparently, these shoes serve as much purpose as the plastic cover I took off my '74 4001, years ago.

"Actually, you're very much mistaken. The horseshoe repro works just like the original, the only difference being that the source of magnetism is relocated.

In the old days, the horseshoe itself was magnetized; unfortunately over time it discharged and the output level decreased drastically. The modern unit overcomes this by using separate Alnico magnets to energize the horseshoe, which will retain their characteristics pretty much for their life.

A standard 4003 pickup has a magnet below the coil and the string motion is sensed only in one dimension, i.e. back and forth. However, the strings move in a helical motion and the horseshoe, since it surrounds the string, allows it to pick up string motion in all axes. It's a major difference and the whole point of the horseshoe."

I find it very hard to believe there will be a magnetic field created through the metal Hshoes by the alnico rods large enough to actually influence the sound.
The shape of it might be altered little bit, but that probably completely falls outside of the coil space.
The sound is picked up on the spot of the disturbed magnetic field that runs through the coil, not above it.

[rickaddict]

Yeah, the shoes LOOK awesome!

To some people, I suppose!

"Look at me! I'm just like Chris Squire!"

[Wiker]

No, no, McCartney
Yes, to some people, at least those that like to have the pickup cover on, the shoes look good because even though they are not really real they look more “real” than that plastic cover.

My bridge high gain doesn’t have adjustable poles. It’s a ‘90s high gain I think, but unwound to 8K to match the toaster. The RI HS sounds good, just that in my ears there’s a greater difference in character between toaster and 8K high gain, than between toaster and RI HS.

[gearhed289]

Yeah, the shoes LOOK awesome!

To some people, I suppose!

"Look at me! I'm just like Chris Squire!"

Sez the guy with the shoeless C64S! And I wear much cooler boots than Chris Squire.

[teeder]

Don't mind him, Tom. He's just the forum Tool!

[Wiker]

So, answer to my question is that I’ll unwind the pickup to around 8K,
and then throw away the shoes to not look Squireish
Na, my hair isn’t long enough, no one will think I’m Squire anyway

[rickaddict]

Don't mind him, Tom. He's just the forum Tool!

HEY!

I resemble that!

[teeder]

So, answer to my question is that I’ll unwind the pickup to around 8K,
and then throw away the shoes to not look Squireish
Na, my hair isn’t long enough, no one will think I’m Squire anyway

Please throw them my direction.

[teeder]

Don't mind him, Tom. He's just the forum Tool!

HEY!

I resemble that!

I couldn't resist!

[rickaddict]

So, answer to my question is that I’ll unwind the pickup to around 8K,
and then throw away the shoes to not look Squireish
Na, my hair isn’t long enough, no one will think I’m Squire anyway

Sorry to hijack the thread and not be of much use with your questions, Geir.

I'm interested to hear the results of your pickup unwinding, but I've never done it and I don't know of anyone who has.

John Allgaier has unwound a hi-gain pickup and achieved the result you're looking for.

I agree that it seems reasonable that your pickup would sound more clear if you unwound it from 11K to 8K.

[johnallg]

So, answer to my question is that I’ll unwind the pickup to around 8K,
and then throw away the shoes to not look Squireish
Na, my hair isn’t long enough, no one will think I’m Squire anyway

Sorry to hijack the thread and not be of much use with your questions, Geir.

I'm interested to hear the results of your pickup unwinding, but I've never done it and I don't know of anyone who has.

John Allgaier has unwound a hi-gain pickup and achieved the result you're looking for.

I agree that it seems reasonable that your pickup would sound more clear if you unwound it from 11K to 8K.

I too would be very interested to know how the RIHS changes when unwound to 8k. I have toyed with that idea, but at what a RIHS costs, I always hesitate. Taking a bridge higain from the 11.4k they come at to around 8k brings it more clarity, true. If I were to unwind a RIHS coil, I would pull the alnico rods and put in same sized slugs and then mount the coil in the magnetic shoes I have laying around waiting a purpose. But it would be a LOT cheaper to have Sergio just wind me a new coil. Not a priority because no destination for it if it were made. I have 4 4001/3 basses and three have horseshoes. The '75 4001 is doing just fine without. Maybe I need a JG project.....

[Wiker]

Sorry to hijack the thread and not be of much use with your questions, Geir.

No problem. Life is too short to be serious.

I too would be very interested to know how the RIHS changes when unwound to 8k. I have toyed with that idea, but at what a RIHS costs, I always hesitate. Taking a bridge higain from the 11.4k they come at to around 8k brings it more clarity, true. If I were to unwind a RIHS coil, I would pull the alnico rods and put in same sized slugs and then mount the coil in the magnetic shoes I have laying around waiting a purpose. But it would be a LOT cheaper to have Sergio just wind me a new coil. Not a priority because no destination for it if it were made. I have 4 4001/3 basses and three have horseshoes. The '75 4001 is doing just fine without. Maybe I need a JG project.....

Oh, I got the impression you had unwound all your RIHS. Ok, I’ll report back when I’ve done it. Or, maybe, would be more fun making a replacement pickup, but I’m no good at winding pickups (snapping the wire all the time). Well, we’ll see.

BTW, a rather strange phenomenon occurred. Playing for a while I noticed the E string was very dead. The E-string sounded for only 1-2 seconds and died off. I thought "now I’ve got that dead E / dead spot syndrome" I’ve read about. However, the muting of the E-string sounded strange, not like a normal lack of sustain. I finally out that when I rested my hand on the shoe of the RIHS while playing then the E-string was dead, not resting my hand it was normal. And this was while playing neck toaster only, not the HS. Picked up the bass later that evening the phenomena was gone and didn’t return. Very very strange Maybe something to do with the ach cloud for Eyjafjallajökull

Mystery solved: Had that strange dead E again, this time when resting my hand on the bridge high gain's cover.
The sleeve on my shirt was hanging down on the E string.

[jps]

Mystery solved: Had that strange dead E again, this time when resting my hand on the bridge high gain's cover.
The sleeve on my shirt was hanging down on the E string.

Try T-shirts. These are perfect!

[Casiraghi22]

I used to own a 4003 and now I proudly own a 4001C64S. let me tell you that the Horseshoe pickup sounds way better than the 4003. Its just sounds amazing. even people had told me that the 4001c64s has a cleaner sound than the 4003 and it sounds better. I dont think they both sound alike like many Rick fans say.

[Wiker]

Mystery solved: Had that strange dead E again, this time when resting my hand on the bridge high gain's cover.
The sleeve on my shirt was hanging down on the E string.

Try T-shirts. These are perfect!

One of those would be nice, but buying that horse shoe PU now I can’t afford it

Btw, thanks Jeffrey for that ingenious method for opening up the shoes. Worked very well.