Hi all,
Not sure if this is the right subforum, mods please advise if not. Now that I have my 360/12 its time to hunt for That Sound (or as close as I can get). Much of what I read emphasizes compression. I understand the basics of compression, and I use it on my acoustics (just a touch) to balance things out when playing fingerstyle.
However, since this is a bit new to me, I find that I am not sure I really know what function does what in pursuit of a particular tone.
I have the Boss CS with the Monte Allums opto mods, which removes much of what most people object to about that pedal, tone-wise.
Can anyone with experience with this pedal or similar (level, tone, attack, sustain) give me a ballpark as to where to set each when playing the Ric? I'd like to get a Janglebox someday, but for now I am happy making do with what I have. Amp is a Fender superchamp.
Thanks!
adam
In Search Of...
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: In Search Of...
What does the 360/12 sound like, by itself?
I just plug mine straight in to the amp. But I'm allergic to compression, pretty much across the board!
I just plug mine straight in to the amp. But I'm allergic to compression, pretty much across the board!
Re: In Search Of...
Sounds fine, but it does seem like you can hardly read about the Ric 12 or the Byrds sound anywhere without compression coming up, so I figured it was important. I did get some tips from Monte Allums that sound like a good starting point, but definitely still interested in opinions from Forumites.
From Monte http://www.monteallums.com/index.html
Hi Adam, for that tone I would place all the knobs straight up except for
the sustain and attack and place them at 3 o'clock. That should get you
close. Adjust volume to match signal level.
From Monte http://www.monteallums.com/index.html
Hi Adam, for that tone I would place all the knobs straight up except for
the sustain and attack and place them at 3 o'clock. That should get you
close. Adjust volume to match signal level.
Re: In Search Of...
Not really sure what version of That Sound you're looking for, but if you want maximum chime, use a light pick.
Jangle, Chime & Twang.
Re: In Search Of...
Well... doesn't have to be carbon copy, but something along the lines of Eight Miles High or Turn Turn Turn.
Re: In Search Of...
A lot of it is how you play, the picking and whatnot. Jim Krause here is an expert on this. Letsee if he chimes in, no pun intened.
Re: In Search Of...
By far, I think the JangleBox is the biggest, easiest single step toward getting that tone, but there are other factors that also contribute and different folks have their own methods as well as their own ideas of what it should sound like. This is how I get my version of that sort of tone:
---Strings - TI Jazz flats - Not only are they pretty easy on the neck and your fingers, but they tend to have fairly dull tone on the primary strings - which brings out the sound of the octave strings in the final mix. They also last a very long time without losing that tone, so the price isn't as bad as it first seems. I generally get at least a year out of a set and I play my twelves a lot. I can come pretty close with Ric factory rounds, but the increased twang and primary vs. octave balance aren't quite the same as what I'm looking for and get with the TI flats.
---Amp - Something like a Fender, Vox, Roland JC, Traynor YCV 20 or YCV40 etc. that is known for having good clean tone. It doesn't have to be a tube amp, but it certainly could be. You want to crank the gain enough to just add a little dirt, but not get into any kind of heavy overdrive. Back in the old days, we didn't have gain controls and the typical small to medium PA system would blow up if you miced the guitar amps - so the amps were bigger and driven pretty hard since they had to stand by themselves. For recording, I usually run semi-silently through my big Traynor bass amp head and into the board. For live sound or when using a mic, I run stereo through two Vox Pathfinder mini-stacks (aimed at each other with a mic between them when recording). If the song is a bit more delicate, you can back the gain down for a less aggressive, clean tone.
---Pick - I usually use a very light flatpick for most stuff on twelves (Dunlop .46 nylon) which makes a very bright sound.
---Compressor - JangleBox set on "bright" with both knobs set in the 2/3-3/4 range. The tone is by no means bad without using the compressor, but it really helps add that semi-nasty, aggressive, bee-in-a-beercan sound (especially when playing single notes on the D and G pairs - which are a healthy part of "that sound" on many old Byrds tunes) and some pop to the attack.
---Picking style - I hardly ever strum a twelve-string. This ain't "Kumbaya" around the campfire, so whether using a flatpick, fingerpicks or a combination of both (McGuinn-style) you are usually picking out lots and lots of individual notes instead of strumming. This gives you a whole bunch of strings that are ringing as individuals - almost constantly, rather than big strums that start at one point in time and decay together at pretty much the same time. That's how you generate that "wall of chime" effect in your tunes. A Rickenbacker twelve can make an incredible amount of sound and texture for a single instrument.
The little 60 second ditty I did for fun on Tartan Day is actually a pretty good example of the things I'm talking about. The first section has one track of twelve, just playing through the chords with a no-strum picking pattern. The second section adds another twelve-string track on top, playing single-string lead with that bee-in-a-beer-can, slightly-dirty tone and the third section eliminates the picking pattern underneath and just has the lead.
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... otland.mp3
and there are more samples of similar stuff here:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... amples.mp3
and if you're really bored, there is a pretty good Rice Crispies jingle here at the moment, but unfortunately, it has no Rick 12 content:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... f/snap.mp3
---Strings - TI Jazz flats - Not only are they pretty easy on the neck and your fingers, but they tend to have fairly dull tone on the primary strings - which brings out the sound of the octave strings in the final mix. They also last a very long time without losing that tone, so the price isn't as bad as it first seems. I generally get at least a year out of a set and I play my twelves a lot. I can come pretty close with Ric factory rounds, but the increased twang and primary vs. octave balance aren't quite the same as what I'm looking for and get with the TI flats.
---Amp - Something like a Fender, Vox, Roland JC, Traynor YCV 20 or YCV40 etc. that is known for having good clean tone. It doesn't have to be a tube amp, but it certainly could be. You want to crank the gain enough to just add a little dirt, but not get into any kind of heavy overdrive. Back in the old days, we didn't have gain controls and the typical small to medium PA system would blow up if you miced the guitar amps - so the amps were bigger and driven pretty hard since they had to stand by themselves. For recording, I usually run semi-silently through my big Traynor bass amp head and into the board. For live sound or when using a mic, I run stereo through two Vox Pathfinder mini-stacks (aimed at each other with a mic between them when recording). If the song is a bit more delicate, you can back the gain down for a less aggressive, clean tone.
---Pick - I usually use a very light flatpick for most stuff on twelves (Dunlop .46 nylon) which makes a very bright sound.
---Compressor - JangleBox set on "bright" with both knobs set in the 2/3-3/4 range. The tone is by no means bad without using the compressor, but it really helps add that semi-nasty, aggressive, bee-in-a-beercan sound (especially when playing single notes on the D and G pairs - which are a healthy part of "that sound" on many old Byrds tunes) and some pop to the attack.
---Picking style - I hardly ever strum a twelve-string. This ain't "Kumbaya" around the campfire, so whether using a flatpick, fingerpicks or a combination of both (McGuinn-style) you are usually picking out lots and lots of individual notes instead of strumming. This gives you a whole bunch of strings that are ringing as individuals - almost constantly, rather than big strums that start at one point in time and decay together at pretty much the same time. That's how you generate that "wall of chime" effect in your tunes. A Rickenbacker twelve can make an incredible amount of sound and texture for a single instrument.
The little 60 second ditty I did for fun on Tartan Day is actually a pretty good example of the things I'm talking about. The first section has one track of twelve, just playing through the chords with a no-strum picking pattern. The second section adds another twelve-string track on top, playing single-string lead with that bee-in-a-beer-can, slightly-dirty tone and the third section eliminates the picking pattern underneath and just has the lead.
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... otland.mp3
and there are more samples of similar stuff here:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... amples.mp3
and if you're really bored, there is a pretty good Rice Crispies jingle here at the moment, but unfortunately, it has no Rick 12 content:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... f/snap.mp3
Re: In Search Of...
Todd certainly gives a lot of insight here. I think the only one who could follow that is probably Jim Krause. He claims he uses his modern 360/12 for everything he plays.