Is My Fretless Tone Too Bright/Zingy?

[ricmic]

Joshua, as usual I enjoyed your work. I like your interpretations. As to tone on this piece, I agree somewhat with Todd. As I to like a bright tone, I did not find your tone to bright. What i did notice was the difference in balance of the notes from the first progression you used to the following progressions. The first riff was just what i have come to expect from your bass work. Not to much mwah, nice percussive effect from you finger technique, and again, a well rounded, supportive riff. I liked it. Perhaps it was your bass or perhaps or amp, but as soon as you had the first chord change, and every one that followed that was not the original riff, it just seemed to my ears that the uniformity of tone between notes modulated some. With that said, I enjoyed the half step slides that you used the riffs in question. I do not own, and for that matter, never have owned a fretless. I do really enjoy listening to one being played though.Again, please know that in no way is it my intention to critisize, as I don't have a fretless leg to stand on. Joshua, you keep recording it and rest assured I will keep listening to it.

[cassius987]

Joshua, I don't think the tone is too bright or zingy. However, I do think you'd get a killer tone if you added in more bass frequecies by way of incorporating maybe 50% of the neck pickup's output to give a little sonic depth, and also dial in a little more bass on the Ashdown amp. You may want to reduce a little bit of low mid (300~600 Hz) to make room for the vocal since the vocal melody and your singer's singing are mostly in the low mid range.

Good to know, thanks for thinking of those things. I will keep that in mind as I proceed... To be honest I always feel like the low end is too great at practice relative to the highs, this recording is the first time I've noted otherwise--hence my thread!

Actually, the acoustics character of your rehearsal room also plays quite a part on your sound. Was the room pretty live with hard reflecting walls or deadened with foams and fibrous wool? The former makes things sound bright while the latter absorbs frequencies above 500 Hz.

It's just a sad little basement with hard reflecting walls. So that may contribute to some of the sound.

Also, let's not forget the "proximity effect" of microphones (especially condenser mics), i.e., you get more lows as the mic gets closer to the amp. How far was your Zoom H4 away from your amp when it was recorded? You'll probably want even more highs and mids once you get into the studio and track your bass part with a mic placed just a few inches from the speaker/cab. As a rule of thumb, aim the mic at the center of the speaker cone if you want brightness, and towards the edge of the cone if you want some mud.

Hmmm... Actually my amp was probably closer to the mic than anything else in the room, beating the drums by a smidge. Plus I just tend to play loud because I'm an arrogant ****** when it comes to playing bass. The guitar sounds muffled, and so does the singer's voice, both because of how he was singing and because he was the furthest away. This mic placement is the only convenient one we've come up with to keep the drums quiet enough on the resultant track, though. Not lots of wiggle room in a tiny basement. I am interested that you think I'll need more highs and mids for a studio track, although I can definitely see what you are saying.

The first riff was just what i have come to expect from your bass work. Not to much mwah, nice percussive effect from you finger technique, and again, a well rounded, supportive riff. I liked it. Perhaps it was your bass or perhaps or amp, but as soon as you had the first chord change, and every one that followed that was not the original riff, it just seemed to my ears that the uniformity of tone between notes modulated some. With that said, I enjoyed the half step slides that you used the riffs in question...Again, please know that in no way is it my intention to critisize, as I don't have a fretless leg to stand on. Joshua, you keep recording it and rest assured I will keep listening to it.

First of all, criticism is welcome. I have never had a bass lesson in my life so I really need that kind of feedback, badly. As for your comments on the riff, I agree, and in part what you're hearing is just me shifting positions "upward" into the higher register. But also for the ii chord, I have a really squeally "hot spot" at the high C# (the octave in that position). I think in part what is going on is that my GHS Brite Flats have remained "Brite" in the upper register because I play there so much less frequently. This inconsistency makes me want to go back to LaBellas or Chromes. On the other hand I have some battered nickel roundwounds lying around that could make a nice alternative to the Brite Flats, which are themselves basically roundwound with a tiny ground-down wrap.[I took the strings off tonight for an unrelated reason and, no, the roundwound wrap has not damaged the fingerboard at all. And as Jeff noted... I play hard.]

Interestingly, I finally scratched the itch tonight and went back to my stock bridge with this bass to lower the action a smidge. It did that, and it also seemed to fix the "hot spot" I mentioned in the last paragraph to an extent. Maybe lower action was what it needed to stop squealing. Other than that I really haven't noticed any tonal changes (including the famed low end boost/cut), but the bass is clearly easier to play.

Keep the comments coming if there are any... like I said the criticism is welcome.

[FretlessOnly]

I just tend to play loud because I'm an arrogant ****** when it comes to playing bass.

Not to single out one comment in your post, but let's make it clear that to some of us, the bass is a coiling snake that needs to be beat into submission at times. If we didn't play it loud and like "Robin Hood drawing a bow" (As someone else pointed out here recently), guitar players would take over the world without asking us.

But, if you really are getting blisters (not callouses, but blisters) playing jazz, then something is wrong. Callouses = good; blisters = bad, although I have brought pins and a lighter to gigs in the past to pop blisters. Just part of the whole thing.

[cassius987]

Actually I'm getting neither. I don't callous at all; and I have only blistered a small handful of times back when I played in a blues rock trio. But never once a callous*, believe it or not... Maybe I have a connective tissue disease. Eek!

*Okay, when I started out with stringed instrument's on Grandpa Riley's acoustic geetar, I definitely got some major callouses. But never once with bass guitar.

[woodyng]

i liked the tone you were getting overall,sometimes it is good to zing out at certain points. re callouses,never had 'em,don't think i ever will,there's no need esp with a rickenbacker bass to play all that hard,and thats why they make 300-1000 watt amps...i am liking the sound of your fretless,can't really go there myself,i try for a pseudo-fretless tone by playing over the back pickup with the tone rolled all the way off on the guitar.....it seems to work for jeff berlin...

[jps]

i....it seems to work for jeff berlin...

Can you play like JB?

[Rickenhands]

Sounds good, brother. Go with your gut. You're a great player, and if your instinct tells you something, listen to it.

[cassius987]

My instinct is on the same page as the folks complaining about "hot spots" as I ascend the register. In fact I've changed how I play the song so I don't do any of the ascension you all have heard in this clip. I also had some KS Slick Rounds laying around so I put them on the 4003FL instead of the GHS Brite Flats; nearly identical strings actually, down to the gauges, but amazingly they just happen to be a hair less zingy. So I may stick with them for now.

Megan (my wife) was commenting that she liked my fretless tone best on a recording I did a year ago when I was using Chromes, so I bought some of the new Fender flats which are supposedly re-branded Chromes, yet come in more convenient gauges for me. I may try them out soon, or if the Slick Rounds work I'll stick with them. I intend to find out at next rehearsal what basic sound I should be aiming at by bringing my 4001FL with Rotosound TruBass nylon tapewounds and seeing which I like better.

[FretlessOnly]

Regarding theTruBass 88s: I've used them in the past and I much prefer the LaBella tapewounds and the Fender tapewounds.

[cassius987]

I picked them up because they're what Chris Brubeck says he uses--so far I've been happy with them. Besides Paul d'Amour, Brubeck is my favorite Ric bassist (and in equal standing as far as all bassists go for that matter), so his word has some weight with me. Why do you prefer the others?

[FretlessOnly]

The one thing the TruBass 88s have on the others is a very slick feel - almost zero string noise. But for mid-growly tone (I'm all about that), the LaBellas or even the Fenders are superior to my ear. The LaBellas have the advantage of having a larger E string (0.115) their either the Rotos or the Fenders, and that removes some flop from the E (tradeoff - get the file out).

[cassius987]

The one thing the TruBass 88s have on the others is a very slick feel - almost zero string noise. But for mid-growly tone (I'm all about that), the LaBellas or even the Fenders are superior to my ear. The LaBellas have the advantage of having a larger E string (0.115) their either the Rotos or the Fenders, and that removes some flop from the E (tradeoff - get the file out).

I was amazed that the Rotos fit easily into the '76 nut. They are gauged 65-75-100-115.

[FretlessOnly]

Oh - I haven't had them on a bass for a while. I know that the Fender set has a 0.110 E.

[woodyng]

jeff asked if i could play like jeff berlin - in a word,NO! (drat my lack of incredible chops,etc) but i still like to try and cop certain tone(s) i admire from my bass heros when i play my decidedly simpler style. (i had a compliment of sorts the other day about my playing-they loved my tone,and found my playing style to be like the bassist for crazy horse-i do usually go for a minimalist approach.... i love prog but have not really found much of an outlet to try to play it.....

[jps]

Did I tell you I was standing right in front of Jeff while he played at the Markbass booth at NAMM?