325C58 tuning and setup question

[babysinblack]

Hi folks. I'm unhappy with a setup my regular guitar guy did with my 325/C58 immediately after I got it. I suspect he cut the nut too low (which among other things puts the strings incredibly close to the pups), and it does not seem to ring (chime) quite as it should, even with Pyramid flatwounds with a Vox AC15/Celestion Blue. I understand that with the bowtie bridge installed Lennon-style it's a tad off-center (my tech wanted to cut a little notch in the pickguard to center it, which gives you an idea of how Rick oriented he is!) and is not going to be intonated as well as with the stock saddle. Also, strings slip on the saddle. Any setup tips before I take it in to my new guy? Is it feasible to file some notches in the bigsby saddle (as on my Gretsch rolling bar bridge)? I notice from looking at pictures of Lennon's 325 as it is today as shown in "Beatle's Gear", the saddle is almost touching the rear pup, which makes it way off the correct intonation point, but then, on his guitar the low E is right off the neck, so maybe his didn't play so great either. Comments? I'm about to install Glen Lambert's wiring loom which I'm really excited about. Is there a secret to the perfect setup?

[jingle_jangle]

The "secret" to a "perfect" setup on a C58 is to take it slowly and address each problem as it arises. Personally, I'd rather have centered strings than "Lennon" authenticity. I generally will slightly reshape the saddle base to clear the guard, if required. If you're using Pyramids, you may still miss the jangle, as the newer Pyramids are made differently from the vintage ones, and of a different alloy, too. Also, string gauge is important; a short-scale should run thicker strings (.012 or .013 set) to help intonation, sustain, and string tension. RIC's .013-.052 set is made specifically for this instrument and its brethren. They're midway between round and flat wound, but jangle better than the Pyramids. In any event, you should use medium-heavy strings.

Cutting the nut deeper has very little effect on string-pickup clearance--it's the bridge height that is the culprit here. But the nut usually needs a tiny bit of massaging, too. The tell-tale here is string buzz and first-fret clearance. Because short-scale strings are larger in diameter, they are more susceptible to bad fretted intonation if not set up just right.

If you're considering slotting the bridge to bring the strings back in line on the neck, it's a quick fix that sometimes works, but be aware of the shape of the slot you're filing, as buzzing can occur.

[babysinblack]

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul! I was aware of the heavy string issue - I realized from looking at my empty string packet that I had changed from the Pyramid 12's to D'adarrio Chrome 13's (perhaps they jangle even less? I've never used them on any other guitar). I will try the Rick 13's - I heard somewhere that when one of John's 325's was pulled out of storage it had a motley mix of flats and rounds of different gauges and brands anyway. I will print a copy of your e-mail for my setup man. I have not been especially aware of string buzzing, so perhaps I am OK on the nut. As for pickup clearance, I can't imagine setting the bridge any higher without a higher nut because the strings would be slanting upward more sharply, right? Never having seen another c58, I don't really know how close the pickup clearance is, but I imagine it's pretty close anyway since people are continually referring to John's possibly having broken a pickup from hitting it - I noticed he always plays on the bridge or neck side of the rear pickup probably for just that reason. The neck angle on this guitar is less extremely shallow if not flat which would seem to make this inevitable. Thanks again!

[scott_s]

One trick to gauge whether the nut is cut properly is to fret the strings at the third fret and hold the guitar up sideways to a bright light. If there is the tiniest of gaps between the string and the first fret, it's good. If there is no gap and the string is laying on the first fret, it's probably too low.

- Scott

[babysinblack]

I don't seem to see Rickenbacker .13's anywhere!

[babysinblack]

Thanks Scott!

[babysinblack]

Hello helpful people! My guitar man just told me the truss rod on my 2003 C58 is non-functional and he can only speculate as to why (one possibility could be an improperly routed channel) Anyone heard of this? Is it a common problem? Is it a warranty pronlem? Even if it is, would Rick cover it, me being the second owner? Thanks for any insight.

[keefster]

Hi, I had a problem with a non functioning truss rod only this year. It was with a non-Rickenbacker (but expensive ) guitar. I could not understand why my 130 pound Danelectro stayed in tune and this top of the range guitar didn't! Finally a local Luthier explained the truss rod had been installed incorrectly and no matter what you turned it did not adjust anything. He repaired this for me at a very reasonable cost and it all works fine now. Hope that helps. As you are the second owner, here in the U.K. you would have no rights regarding a warranty repair. Cheers Keith

[scott_s]

All of the reissue guitars use the new-style truss rods, right? Perhaps the body end has come loose, spinning whenever the neck end is adjusted.

- Scott

[babysinblack]

Thanks fellers. My tech had already checked for whether the rod was broken or disconnected. He said the neck was bowed and guessed the channel was too high for the rod to contact (or something like that) and performed a heat press, and tells me the truss rod now works! Now all I have to do (with Glen's help) is figure out whether he installed the loom correctly. Even if he didn't, it looks and plays like a different instrument!

[babysinblack]

Well I discovered that I had the knobs mixed up and had a pickup turned off, thinking it was a tone control (which, being counter-clockwise, would be full on when turned to the left). Having a pickup turned off can seriously limit your switching options!

Glen's Lennon mod is absolutely UNBELIEVABLE! I know that he moderates this forum and so let me say this is a completely unsolicited endorsement! My guitar tech also did a beautiful job, including slotting the bigsby bowtie saddle and cutting the nut properly, and it is a transformed guitar. WOW! Now I know what people are talking about when they talk about their C58s! Unfortunately it is 1AM here so I have to wait until tomorrow to crank.

[deaconblues]

Glen's Lennon mod is absolutely UNBELIEVABLE! I know that he moderates this forum and so let me say this is a completely unsolicited endorsement! My guitar tech also did a beautiful job, including slotting the bigsby bowtie saddle and cutting the nut properly, and it is a transformed guitar. WOW! Now I know what people are talking about when they talk about their C58s! Unfortunately it is 1AM here so I have to wait until tomorrow to crank.

Congrats!

You're making me miss mine!

[babysinblack]

Thanks Dan. But you have your C64 for consolation!

[deaconblues]

Thanks Dan. But you have your C64 for consolation!

Yeah, life is tough!

[DavidW]

Didn't want to make a new thread, but I've got a question. Is it possible to have a 325 setup for lower tension strings that might be more suited towards lead playing?