RAW BUT GREAT

[royclough]

[dbailey62]

I really like the StarClub album. It's terrific to hear how, even then, they were such a tight and precise outfit both instrumentally and vocally. That live album makes it perfectly clear to any listener that there really wasn't much going on in the way of studio trickery on their hits.

The vintage version of Sick and Tired sung by Chris Curtis is a great rocking example. It's fun to compare it to the version released on Sire so many years later.

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And to actually see this short newsreel footage of them performing Hully Gully on the StarClub stage is very, very special.

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[royclough]

Thing is David compare their star club performances to The Beatles and in my view Searchers win hands down.

[sowhat]

Thing is David compare their star club performances to The Beatles and in my view Searchers win hands down.

In any case both bands are from the days when bands actually could play live.

[royclough]

Excellent point Sheena what you get with a lot of modern day boy bands girl bands is basically them miming to cd

[dbailey62]

Thing is David compare their star club performances to The Beatles and in my view Searchers win hands down.

I would agree with that 90% Roy. They were much tighter instrumentally and vocally. The Searchers never rocked harder than on that album .... at least until the Sire records were recorded. Much of that came from Chris Curtis's voice. When I first heard the album way back when, it immediately reminded me of Jim Morrison. It was very full throated.

There is a certain intangible to the Beatles recordings and it's unfortunate that they weren't recorded nearly as well as the Searcher's record was. One handheld mic. held in the air by Kingsize Taylor is going to limit your fidelity. Furthermore, they ruined the first releases of the Beatles at the StarClub album (the Lingasong / Bellaphone release and those that followed on Sony etc etc etc ...) by over processing the mono original in order to try and make it sound more pallatable. Recently I came across the tracks in an unadulterated form. No phony stereo processing. No over EQ'ing. It's much better but it obviously can't sound like this very clean recording.

I think the Beatles played with a total abandon and they did that at the cost of precision.

The Searchers seemed to have chosen a different road and kept things very tight and precise at the cost of some of that abandon and racousness that makes the Beatles at the Star Club fun despite it's poor fidelity. It really is for collectors only unfortunately.

[dbailey62]

Thing is David compare their star club performances to The Beatles and in my view Searchers win hands down.

In any case both bands are from the days when bands actually could play live.

Hmmmmm, sort of true at least in terms of all those annoying boy bands but there area a lot of groups out there who do play very well live.

[royclough]

Point is very vaild David and well put, The Searchers star club recordings were professionally recorded as you say.

[ozmag]

Point is very vaild David and well put, The Searchers star club recordings were professionally recorded as you say.

I agree with your pint David about the recording quality, what differs is the energy and sense of performance that comes screaming out of the Beatles Star Club recording.

i recall John McNally saying to me many years back that when the Beatles came back from Hamburg (1st trip) that they had improved enormously and they were head and shoulders above any of the other Liverpool bands at the time.

I understand Bands playing along to tapes is almost a standard method of live (?) performances these days, Cliff for instance sings along to his own recorded vocal and you could hear the Shadows click tracks before each song on the 50th anniversary tour as Frank Allen says "we may be **** but at least we are live ****"

Cheers

[dbailey62]

Point is very vaild David and well put, The Searchers star club recordings were professionally recorded as you say.

I agree with your pint David about the recording quality, what differs is the energy and sense of performance that comes screaming out of the Beatles Star Club recording.

i recall John McNally saying to me many years back that when the Beatles came back from Hamburg (1st trip) that they had improved enormously and they were head and shoulders above any of the other Liverpool bands at the time.

I understand Bands playing along to tapes is almost a standard method of live (?) performances these days, Cliff for instance sings along to his own recorded vocal and you could hear the Shadows click tracks before each song on the 50th anniversary tour as Frank Allen says "we may be **** but at least we are live ****"

Cheers

That's the point I was trying to make Michael when I mentioned that the Beatles played with total abandon at the price of precision and when I mentioned the "intangibles". The Beatles were sloppy as hell where as the Searchers were note perfect. That said, it is my understanding that the Searchers live show was recorded (live off the floor) with no audience with audience response being added in editing. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me .... quickly.

Micheal, have you heard the "Purple Chick - Darthdisc" version of the Beatles Starclub tapes? I mentioned them in my original note to Roy but have since looked them up in my collection. They are the raw tapes. They are so much easier to listen to than the re-processed stereo and overly eq'd versions released in the past.

In regards to the Searchers live (and I'm sure some will disagree with me on this point), I wish they'd drop the guitar synth. They don't need the darned thing and I consider it a bit of a gimmick. It also leads some people to think they are playing with tapes (which they take pains to clarify with the audience).

Edit: OK, I accept that it works well on Somebody Told Me You Were Crying and What Have They Done To The Rain.

cheers
db

[ozmag]

Hi DB,

Haven't heard this version of the Beatles Star Club so can't comment I'll try and get a copy as it sounds interesting.

Agree on the Synth point, it seems Spence has it so they use it but at least it is all live.

Cheers

[admin]

David: This is a great version and if I might add - a great thread. Chris really added a lot of depth to The Searchers in the early days. He was ahead of his time as a drummer-frontman and I thought that his original numbers were just the beginning. Sadly, for me, his writing did not continue.

Songs such as "Sick and tired" and "High Heel Sneakers" were favourites of mine during the early days and the "raw tone" was one of the reasons I was attracted to them.

With a lot of the early 1960s music the minimalist approach which I have accepted as "less is more" won the day. Whether this was deliberate or accidental was of little consequence - it just was and that was good for all of us who embraced the enthusiasm of the moment.

[dbailey62]

David: This is a great version and if I might add - a great thread. Chris really added a lot of depth to The Searchers in the early days. He was ahead of his time as a drummer-frontman and I thought that his original numbers were just the beginning. Sadly, for me, his writing did not continue.

Songs such as "Sick and tired" and "High Heel Sneakers" were favourites of mine during the early days and the "raw tone" was one of the reasons I was attracted to them.

With a lot of the early 1960s music the minimalist approach which I have accepted as "less is more" won the day. Whether this was deliberate or accidental was of little consequence - it just was and that was good for all of us who embraced the enthusiasm of the moment.

Another great Chris rocker from the StarClub album is "I Can Tell". It's an awesome vocal. He really lets loose on that one. Ya, "High Heel Sneakers" is a fine John vocal. I always welcome his vocals in the live shows.