Comments on my 325C58

Modern years of Rickenbacker Guitars from 1984 to the present

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glen_l
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Comments on my 325C58

Post by glen_l »

Having finally received my own 325C58 in natural finish this week I have to say that it is a beautifully made instrument with an amazing feel to it.

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After adjusting the setup, moving the vibrola up off the top of the guitar and loosening it's mechanism a little so it could move to a stable position, removing the arm, and rubbing beeswax treatment into the fingerboard It was in a condition where I could comfortably play it and spent last doing just that for a couple of hours. I found that it's still slipping out of tune and I think it'll end up with a trapeze in place of the kauffman. A few of the Ric statites feel loose, which may also be contributiong to the tuning slipping. I may have to do something about that also.

I played thru a Vox AC30/4 using mainly the bridge pickup thru the Normal channel with the brilliant switch in the 'Bass' position. It was this combination that was really giving the early beatle type sound. I found that the amp had to up very loud though (more about that later).

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Has anyone yet pointed out that the volume controls actually hit each other in use? I was a little concerned initially but then it clicked that there's a reason for it. The control panel is actually an accurate copy of Lennon's original one including all the hole postions. His panel originally had only two pots and one switch, and the knobs were the earlier plain chrome type, with a smaller diameter. The 'Oven' knobs were fitted when the extra 2 pots were added. So the two new pot holes where spaced further apart to allow for these larger diameter knobs, but the original two lower pot holes had to be left as is. This means the oven knobs would have hit together on Lennon's also, and explains the odd hole placements when you compare the two pairs of holes. Maybe another reason he was on a quest for different knobs.

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I was surprised at the dc resistance of the short pole toaster pickups. The three on this 325C58 measure only 3.5K each, which is lower than I expected. Many owners of 50's rics have reported readings of 5-7K on their toasters. This would account for the high amplifier volume setting required to get sufficient level. The drawback is you are more likely to pick up unwanted noises and humming.

I noticed that with the selector in the middle or upper postions (neck and middle pickups selected in parallel) I was getting that unwanted mechanical noise of the pick hitting the middle pickup. This is why so many (myself included) have previously theorised that Lennon disconnected the middle pickup on his original 325.

More recent investigation indicates that it's far more likely his 325 was wired in an earlier version of 4 control wiring such that the middle pickup could actually be switched out. Recent research to shows that the idea of shorting the neck and middle pickups together was a practice that probably started after 1958. The wiring on Lennon's was likely more intricate than previously thought, whereas the wiring in the 325C58 is more like later models.

I'll be making up 2 replacement panels for mine so that I can interchange them and compare the results.

1) Correct value pots, toggle switch, capacitors, and wiring in 2 control format, with 2 chrome 'Tele' style knobs, very close to the originals from the '57/58 period

2) Correct value pots, toggle switch, capacitors, and wiring for 4 control version, with 4 radio style knobs.

More on that when it happens.......
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Post by admin »

This means the pots would have hit together on Lennon's also. Maybe another reason he was on a quest for different knobs.
A most intriguing and unique theory Glen.

Thanks for the measure of resistance on the pickups as well.

Thanks for such a detailed post with beautiful photos. For a moment I felt that it was the early 1960s.

Much discussion will follow from this post I am sure. AC-30, normal setting, on bass? To be continued...
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

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spencer

Post by spencer »

Ah, a very in depth review. Leave it to Mr. Lambert, huh?
That's intersting about the knobs, never knew that. And the pup resistance, that is rather low.
I guess that's why you have to crank the amp so much.
Can you put a trapeze right on the Kaufman bracket? They look the same to me.
I had to disconnect the middle pup on my V63 for that reason, I was always bumping it with my pick. Makes me wonder how all the guys with 370s deal with it.
Thanks for the review Glen. I've played some at GC a few times, but not long enough to reach such conclusions. Perhaps I should start saving, especially with the overstock GC has on their hands at the moment.
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Post by shamustwin »

I love it in the natural finish. Congrats and thanks for the review. Someday...
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Post by wolfgang »

Glen,
the pickups measure 3.5 KOhms each, that means, with both volume pots "on" you measured 3.5 kOhms with the toggle switch in bridge position; ca. 1.75 kOhms with the toggle switch in the neck position (neck and middle pu in parallel), and with the toggle switch in the middle it was about 1.2 kOhms (all three pu in parallel)?
I have to rewire one (!) of my 325V63(!) pick ups again...
Thanks for your wonderful post!
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Post by glen_l »

Yes the bridge pickup is 3.5K and the neck & middle pickups read 1.75K exactly due to the way they're connected in parallel. You don't get 1.2K with the toggle in the middle postion though. They split off to the two different volume controls in that position. The wiring on mine won't be staying this way for long. I prefer to change it to '58 wiring.

The kauffman with the handle removed appears to be behaving itself since I made a few adjustments, so I'll give it a try like this for a while, as I prefer to keep it on if possible. It just won't return to correct pitch if you try using it.

A trapeze will hook onto the same endhook. It's what they were designed to do, as a quick and easy replacment for the vibrolas, and they do look much cooler than the generic tailpeices that were used on the early '58 330 and 360 Capris.
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Post by jimbunch »

Glen,

I played a 325C this week at Guitar Center and the tremelo arm seemed to really be in the way. I found myself strumming and picking along the neck instead of above the pickups. Are you saying that you just remove the tremlo arm or is there some way to get it out of the way when you are not using it?

I also noticed that the volume controls hit each other as you turn them. I just figured that was one reason why Lennon replaced the knobs.

Jim
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Post by glen_l »

You can easily take the vibrola handle off. If you check the end view on my first post you'll see one of those familiar thumbscrews that Ric seem to have used so often in a variety of places on various models. You'll probably need to loosen it with a pair of multigrips (using something on the jaws to protect the chrome plated screw from getting damaged edges). The arm slides out of the fitting and you can tighten the screw up to stop it vibrating loose later.
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Post by jimbunch »

Glen,

After re-reading your post I realized that your are removing the vibrola handle. The picture you posted still has the vibrola attached and I thought there must be some way to leave it attached and still play comfortably with your right hand.

If I understand your post your are going to replace the Kaufman with a trapeze tailpiece. Why not the Bigsby? Is the Bigsby a complicated replacement?

Sorry for all the questions. Guitar Center has a good price on the 325C and I think I may purchase one.

Jim
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Post by admin »

Jim: The Bigsby is not a complicated replacement, however, you need a little patience and you have to be prepared to drill holes in the top of your guitar for the B5. Measure twice, drill once.
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Post by glen_l »

The saying of many a luthier and cabinet maker Peter...well said.

This Bigsby isn't complicated, but I don't want to do anything irreversable to the guitar at the moment, so drilling holes is out. Fortunately the vibrola without the handle seems to have settled into a stable position and is holding tune. It's not going to be a gigging instrument, so for the moment it stays. If it does give problems I'd use a trapeze because I don't absolutely need a tremelo system on the guitar and the trapeze simply hooks in place of the vibrola if required. (also I don't have a trapeze at the moment...lol)

At present I'm more interested in working on the wiring. All reversable and out of sight stuff.

Here's a closeup (from the Beatgear Cavern thread) of Lennon's 325 taken shortly after it's purchase. It still has all the original hardware including vibrola and Rogan knobs. This shows those lower two knobs are hitting together.
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Post by stuart »

That is such a beautiful color, and it goes well with your amp! I hope the 360/12C63 comes out soon, or else I may be tempted to buy a 325 instead. :D
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Post by glen_l »

Here's the latest update on my 325C58. I've fitted a custom made 2 pot control plate including original '58 spec loom, some lookalike chrome knobs, & Amber switchtip. This is as close as you can get to the very first units that came off the line all those years ago. The tones you can get from this configuration are amazing, depsite there being only 2 pots. The switch settings give much more variety than usual. There is also no standyby Hum, as is the case with factory 325C58's.
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Two other finer points that I've also changed. The vibrola arm is rebent into original shape, and there is no 5th control plate screw. This is more representative of the first handful of solidtop 325's rather than Lennon's in particular, although his did come off the line looking exactly like this.
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Post by doctorwho »

Nicely done, Glen!
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
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