Very nice track! Sounds great.
aside from purists aspects.. and business aspects ( the " were selling every guitar faster than we can make 'em. why change ? ) ..
I think FOR ME.. addressing the nut to get tighter pairs.. & maximize spacing .. will be a vast improvement..
Hope So!
M
Setup 620/12
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Re: Setup 620/12
Forgot to mention...
Please DO get the Roger McGuinn video. He plays a mixture of folk/mandolin/rock all at once.
Those "too close" strings become a real bonus if you need spare fingers to hammer down and do transitions.
Please DO get the Roger McGuinn video. He plays a mixture of folk/mandolin/rock all at once.
Those "too close" strings become a real bonus if you need spare fingers to hammer down and do transitions.
Re: Setup 620/12
Yep, Roger's video is well worth the money. My only complaint is that you have to tune down half a step to play along, which is unfortunate, but buy it anyway and you won't regret it. Of course, if you guys would dump these old fashioned guitars and buy a modern, Gibson Robot Guitar you could probably just push a button on it and play along..... 
(where is that barfing smiley when you need it?)
Glad you enjoyed "The Highwayman". Kudos to Jimmy Webb for writing a great song. At first, I wasn't sure about the sanity of covering a song that had been nicely done by a bunch of lightweights like Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Kris Kristofferson and Johnny Cash, but it didn't have any Ricks in it and I thought the instrumental part was fairly boring. Plus, I basically just did it for my own enjoyment. I was fooling around with that thumb-tapping, finger-picking/strumming, neck-pickup-only technique at the time and playing "Tennessee Stud" because the thumb taps sound kind of like horses' hooves on a road. Somehow, it got shifted down to Am at some point and morphed into "The Highwayman" and I turned on the recorder. Scott, it's not protected in my web closet by anything that I'm aware of, so you should be able to tell your computer to save it to the desktop (or similar) and keep a copy to upload into the Ipod.
It's funny, but most of my favorite home recordings tend to be instances where I was trying something a bit weird and out of the norm with the twelve-string, just for grins. My favorite is still this short one:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... chorus.mp3
It's not exactly the sorrowful sound that the original song's lyrics call for, but who would have thought that classic Rickenbacker twelve sound could be pushed so well into this context?...folks are probably mailing me Haggis bombs across the Atlantic as we speak for messing with one of their national treasures.....
(where is that barfing smiley when you need it?)Glad you enjoyed "The Highwayman". Kudos to Jimmy Webb for writing a great song. At first, I wasn't sure about the sanity of covering a song that had been nicely done by a bunch of lightweights like Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Kris Kristofferson and Johnny Cash, but it didn't have any Ricks in it and I thought the instrumental part was fairly boring. Plus, I basically just did it for my own enjoyment. I was fooling around with that thumb-tapping, finger-picking/strumming, neck-pickup-only technique at the time and playing "Tennessee Stud" because the thumb taps sound kind of like horses' hooves on a road. Somehow, it got shifted down to Am at some point and morphed into "The Highwayman" and I turned on the recorder. Scott, it's not protected in my web closet by anything that I'm aware of, so you should be able to tell your computer to save it to the desktop (or similar) and keep a copy to upload into the Ipod.
It's funny, but most of my favorite home recordings tend to be instances where I was trying something a bit weird and out of the norm with the twelve-string, just for grins. My favorite is still this short one:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... chorus.mp3
It's not exactly the sorrowful sound that the original song's lyrics call for, but who would have thought that classic Rickenbacker twelve sound could be pushed so well into this context?...folks are probably mailing me Haggis bombs across the Atlantic as we speak for messing with one of their national treasures.....
Re: Setup 620/12
Roger's tuning down a half step may have been fine back in the day.
But just about every song video he does, he's playing in normal tuning. Guess why they invented the double truss rod?
But still a lesson in different styles of playing.
But just about every song video he does, he's playing in normal tuning. Guess why they invented the double truss rod?
But still a lesson in different styles of playing.
Re: Setup 620/12
I found a copy of a note that Mark sent me a long time ago which details his standard set-up and adjustment process for twelves. At the time, this was running around $300. This does not include the full-width re-fret job that I later had him also do to the 370/12. He is certainly not the only person who could do this sort of work, but he does it very well.
Rickenbacker 12 string modifications post 1985 era guitars
1- make a new black phenolic nut with the widest spacing possible
This spacing is based on the round over point of the
frets ... not the actual fretboard .
The pairs are cut at .070 for the D/4th ,G/3rd ,B2nd and High E/1st
The pairs for the Low E and A are cut at .080 apart.
You gain about .110" in overall width !
2- trim the nameplate to vintage spec so that it
clears the slots in the face of the headstock
3-replace the stainless steel truss rod bard with one that is
shaped to the edge of the cavity wall .
The 'new' version on this era of Ricks ,
digs under the fretboard and when the rods are tightened ,
it wraps around the walnut
center section , causing the bar to dig and then pop the fretboards .
The replacement that I make is similar to the originals in shape .
TB note: This is a relatively large aluminum block, shaped to fit the truss rod cavity along its bearing surface and probably a pretty good idea on any Rickenbacker. Photo below.
4- the Sharkfin and bottom guard edges are rounded over .
This was original spec so you would not cut your hand on the plexiglass .
5- The 12 saddle bridge is mounted (I do not supply this part )
This entails -
5a-centering the base plate to the neck ,
5b-etching the bottom with the instruments serial number,
5c-etching a "T" for treble, a "B" for bass as this plate is NOT symetrical !
5d- The location is checked and 5/32" added to the length so that the
saddles when intonated , will be centered in the bridge chassis .
5e- the springs shifted and/or stretched to not rattle once it is adjusted/intonated.
6- the saddles are removed , and deburred on the outside edges of each pair,
The tops of each pair are gently rounded to give a visual 'pairing' of the two saddles .
This was done in the 1960's
The saddles are notched with the tops of the strings following a 10" radius .
This gives a smooth picking motion to the player.
The tops of all the saddles are sanded with 220 grit sand paper and
then steel wooled to give a nice finished look .
This was also something done in the 1960's .
TB note: If you like to play without the bridge cover, this makes quite a difference by getting rid of the sharp edges on the saddles.
7- The tuners mounted on the side of the headstock are removed , the screw holes plugged
and redrilled with a #44 bit , then the screws inserted ,then removed to
form 'threads' and a drop of Cyanoacrylate glue drizzled into the hole to harden
the walls of this cavity .
This allows the screw to tighten more and keep these tuners snug .
8- The jacks are checked and on "Rick-O-Sound" jacks ,the mono/standard jack switch is
cleaned and both jacks tightened .
The dual jacks of other models can be modded ... I install a .0047 cap on the jack
nearest the neck -so that when you plug into that jack , you
get the clasic 'crisp' tone . The other jack retains the normal 'full' tone .
9- The "R" tailpiece (while classic looking) is prone to gripping strings making it
difficult to change broken strings . These fins were once deburred before plating .. I deburr every one that crosses my bench .
For solid body guitars I suggest replaing the "R" with the flat /vintage style .
This allows the setting of intonation and restringing to be much easier .
10- The strap buttons - the threads are checked .
Many of these become loose over time , and a dose of C.A. glue and retapping fixes this.
11- The pickups are checked for balance .... and the grommets replaced or
added to fix the height of the pickups for maximum sound.
12- the frets are checked for level and the height measured .
13- SET UP
The nut is finalized , the guitar is strung with your choice of string
gauge /brand (you supply this ,Do NOT put new strings on before you send me the guitar )
The truss rods are adjusted for minimum neck relief
The bridge height is set
The saddles are intonated for A 440hz unless you specify a different pitch .
The pickup height fine tuned
The controls are checked
And then the guitar cleaned of any shop 'dust' and or 'funk'
I had a brainstorm one day when playing my 340/12 and I've talked it over with Paul W. and we both think it will work. I want to try it on the 340/12 one of these days when my old house settles down and I have more cash to spend on guitar stuff. I noticed while playing that there are some areas on the neck that my hands seldom even touch while playing. This mod would be somewhat unconventional, but the "valleys" created next to the fingerboard are in those "untouched" areas with little or no effect on playability. It would allow the installation of a 660-style fingerboard (or even wider) on a 300 series neck. I have an unused, un-cut 12-saddle bridge sitting here in the parts box and between that and the "wingerboard" things could get pretty interesting. The question then becomes one of how much to add to get really comfortable playing room but keep it as fast as possible and not go "overboard"....pun intended. You can see what it looks like in the cross-section drawing.
Rickenbacker 12 string modifications post 1985 era guitars
1- make a new black phenolic nut with the widest spacing possible
This spacing is based on the round over point of the
frets ... not the actual fretboard .
The pairs are cut at .070 for the D/4th ,G/3rd ,B2nd and High E/1st
The pairs for the Low E and A are cut at .080 apart.
You gain about .110" in overall width !
2- trim the nameplate to vintage spec so that it
clears the slots in the face of the headstock
3-replace the stainless steel truss rod bard with one that is
shaped to the edge of the cavity wall .
The 'new' version on this era of Ricks ,
digs under the fretboard and when the rods are tightened ,
it wraps around the walnut
center section , causing the bar to dig and then pop the fretboards .
The replacement that I make is similar to the originals in shape .
TB note: This is a relatively large aluminum block, shaped to fit the truss rod cavity along its bearing surface and probably a pretty good idea on any Rickenbacker. Photo below.
4- the Sharkfin and bottom guard edges are rounded over .
This was original spec so you would not cut your hand on the plexiglass .
5- The 12 saddle bridge is mounted (I do not supply this part )
This entails -
5a-centering the base plate to the neck ,
5b-etching the bottom with the instruments serial number,
5c-etching a "T" for treble, a "B" for bass as this plate is NOT symetrical !
5d- The location is checked and 5/32" added to the length so that the
saddles when intonated , will be centered in the bridge chassis .
5e- the springs shifted and/or stretched to not rattle once it is adjusted/intonated.
6- the saddles are removed , and deburred on the outside edges of each pair,
The tops of each pair are gently rounded to give a visual 'pairing' of the two saddles .
This was done in the 1960's
The saddles are notched with the tops of the strings following a 10" radius .
This gives a smooth picking motion to the player.
The tops of all the saddles are sanded with 220 grit sand paper and
then steel wooled to give a nice finished look .
This was also something done in the 1960's .
TB note: If you like to play without the bridge cover, this makes quite a difference by getting rid of the sharp edges on the saddles.
7- The tuners mounted on the side of the headstock are removed , the screw holes plugged
and redrilled with a #44 bit , then the screws inserted ,then removed to
form 'threads' and a drop of Cyanoacrylate glue drizzled into the hole to harden
the walls of this cavity .
This allows the screw to tighten more and keep these tuners snug .
8- The jacks are checked and on "Rick-O-Sound" jacks ,the mono/standard jack switch is
cleaned and both jacks tightened .
The dual jacks of other models can be modded ... I install a .0047 cap on the jack
nearest the neck -so that when you plug into that jack , you
get the clasic 'crisp' tone . The other jack retains the normal 'full' tone .
9- The "R" tailpiece (while classic looking) is prone to gripping strings making it
difficult to change broken strings . These fins were once deburred before plating .. I deburr every one that crosses my bench .
For solid body guitars I suggest replaing the "R" with the flat /vintage style .
This allows the setting of intonation and restringing to be much easier .
10- The strap buttons - the threads are checked .
Many of these become loose over time , and a dose of C.A. glue and retapping fixes this.
11- The pickups are checked for balance .... and the grommets replaced or
added to fix the height of the pickups for maximum sound.
12- the frets are checked for level and the height measured .
13- SET UP
The nut is finalized , the guitar is strung with your choice of string
gauge /brand (you supply this ,Do NOT put new strings on before you send me the guitar )
The truss rods are adjusted for minimum neck relief
The bridge height is set
The saddles are intonated for A 440hz unless you specify a different pitch .
The pickup height fine tuned
The controls are checked
And then the guitar cleaned of any shop 'dust' and or 'funk'
I had a brainstorm one day when playing my 340/12 and I've talked it over with Paul W. and we both think it will work. I want to try it on the 340/12 one of these days when my old house settles down and I have more cash to spend on guitar stuff. I noticed while playing that there are some areas on the neck that my hands seldom even touch while playing. This mod would be somewhat unconventional, but the "valleys" created next to the fingerboard are in those "untouched" areas with little or no effect on playability. It would allow the installation of a 660-style fingerboard (or even wider) on a 300 series neck. I have an unused, un-cut 12-saddle bridge sitting here in the parts box and between that and the "wingerboard" things could get pretty interesting. The question then becomes one of how much to add to get really comfortable playing room but keep it as fast as possible and not go "overboard"....pun intended. You can see what it looks like in the cross-section drawing.
- Attachments
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Re: Setup 620/12
Wow.. quite a list.
Analagous I guess to : guys who would balance the crankshaft, port and polish the heads etc. of their beloved hobby car ( ie. old Mustang ! ) and really maximize every aspect of the car. Add up all the minor improvements. and they really hum!
For me,, the custom nut is job #1.. will hopefully make 'the' difference.. so I can keep and enjoy the guitar..
Item #8 is very interesting. I personally can't quite relate to the Ric-O-Sound.. routing the two pickups to separate amps.. but having two tone options with the different jacks.. might be pretty useful.. depending on which amp you're using!
Analagous I guess to : guys who would balance the crankshaft, port and polish the heads etc. of their beloved hobby car ( ie. old Mustang ! ) and really maximize every aspect of the car. Add up all the minor improvements. and they really hum!
For me,, the custom nut is job #1.. will hopefully make 'the' difference.. so I can keep and enjoy the guitar..
Item #8 is very interesting. I personally can't quite relate to the Ric-O-Sound.. routing the two pickups to separate amps.. but having two tone options with the different jacks.. might be pretty useful.. depending on which amp you're using!
Re: Setup 620/12
The advice I gave you in you other thread was basically the same as here a 330 nut or custom nut job. You may want to add this cost to the amount you can sell the guitar for and see if it is close to the price of a used 660. The 620 and 660 are basically the same guitar. If you wanted the 330/360 hollow/semi hollow sound then the nut would be your only choice.
"The best things in life aren't things."
