Is two enough...?

[Lost Coyotes]

I still have Marc's 1972 4001 (and always will) and have decided it's just too darn good to not use it as my main bass...
I'm not getting any younger, etc, etc...can't take it with me and so on.
I want to use a hipshot aluminum on it, since I like it already on my May '73.

I forgot; that there is a difference in the mounting holes between an August '72 and a May '73...
The bass I am putting it on only has three holes (all in a row) for the mounting of the gap-tooth tail piece.
The hipstick (dipshot?) has four holes (two rows of two) and therefore I can only get two mounting screws in the bass.

I don't know for a fact, but it is my gut feeling that only 2 screws will not hold this thing in place for a long time.

Of course I could drill the bass but I don't think I'm a gonna be doing that.
Or, I could drill another hole through the middle of the hipshot. I feel much better about this choice.
Or, you could tell me, "Mike, you worry too much; leave it with two screws, it will be fine".

So the question is; what?

[FretlessOnly]

Well, you left off another option:

Mike, why you wanna take a gap-toothed tailpiece off a '72 Rick??? I really like the gap-toother on my April '73 4001FL; the problem is with the slots in the saddles, not the tailpiece. Stays dead flat on the face o' the bass, don't you know, and it looks cool. But your post confuses me, because what you typed makes it sound as if your May '73 has some screw configuration other than three holes in a row. My April '73 has just the three in a row, under the tailpiece edge of the bridge (at the very back edge of the bridge "bunker").

If you really feel you must use the DipSh*t (hey, I've got one on my '08 4003FL, but that ain't no '72), I'd get a metal bit and add a third hole in the tailpiece; don't be drillin' into your '72. Just my opinion, of course.

[Lost Coyotes]

Well, you left off another option:

Mike, why you wanna take a gap-toothed tailpiece off a '72 Rick??? I really like the gap-toother on my April '73 4001FL; the problem is with the slots in the saddles, not the tailpiece. Stays dead flat on the face o' the bass, don't you know, and it looks cool. But your post confuses me, because what you typed makes it sound as if your May '73 has some screw configuration other than three holes in a row. My April '73 has just the three in a row, under the tailpiece edge of the bridge (at the very back edge of the bridge "bunker").

If you really feel you must use the DipSh*t (hey, I've got one on my '08 4003FL, but that ain't no '72), I'd get a metal bit and add a third hole in the tailpiece; don't be drillin' into your '72. Just my opinion, of course.

Thanks for the reply...
The difference is between April and May 1973. That is when the "new" tp started, and that one has the 4 holes that match the hipshot.
I want to use it, so I can play it in tune...and intonating the stocker is...something I won't get into here, as it has been known to begin wars, and it is documented in many lengthy threads. It's not a mod that is irreversible, after all.
But I think drilling the bridge is the only logical option at this point.

[FretlessOnly]

I had no idea that the tailpiece changed from April to May '73 (I just made it, I guess!). I figured the gap-toothed tailpiece went through June '73 when the checkered binding left. Come to think of it, there's no good reason why I would have thought that. The wavy Grovers lasted into '74 (and later in some cases) and the 1/2-inch spacing made it until sometime in early-mid '75...it all changed when it did. Likely there are at least a couple of May '73 or slightly later basses with the gap-toothed tailpiece floating around.

If you won't say it, I will: it's a bugger to intonate the bridge. Having to remove it is only half the hassle; once you get it off, the adjustment screws fight with you and try to move the saddle before you've got them seated properly. I've found that using my left thumb to keep the saddle where I want it and turning with my right hand gets close. But I play mainly FL, so it needn't be an exact science.

But yeah, go with the extra hole in the new tailpiece.

[gearhed289]

I agree with the "drill the Hipshot" idea. Use a drill press, measure twice, and aim carefully! Enjoy the bass.

[johnallg]

Or just use the two holes that line up. I believe with the way a Hipshot lays on the body, 2 screws will be enough to keep it in place.

[aceonbass]

I also think you should drill the Hipshot....if you want it to fit. Then again....I wouldn't use the Hipshot unless I actually LIKED wobly, clicking saddles on a part that infringes on RIC tradcemarks. Hipshot makes great parts, but this bridge was not done to their usual standards.

[Lost Coyotes]

Or just use the two holes that line up. I believe with the way a Hipshot lays on the body, 2 screws will be enough to keep it in place.

You know, John, as I look at it - mounted with just the 2 screws in place, it may just be fine at that.
It looks as if a tiny gap exists at the back side of the tp, and I can kinda see that there is ever so slight pulling up on it by the strings.
I just don't know for sure; and it would sure be embarrassing to be playing along and have the whole thing come flying off...probably hit me in the mouth in process.
I can hear the bar genius calling out, "get a real bass!" or "freebird!"...
Not again...
I believe I'm gonna drill the third hole in the hipshot - lining up with the center hole already in the bass, to be safe.
Thanks for the input.

[Lost Coyotes]

I also think you should drill the Hipshot....if you want it to fit. Then again....I wouldn't use the Hipshot unless I actually LIKED wobly, clicking saddles on a part that infringes on RIC tradcemarks. Hipshot makes great parts, but this bridge was not done to their usual standards.

I don't understand that but mine doesn't wobble...but then again, I got it from an esteemed forumite here...

[cassius987]

Mike, they will not wobble with medium or high action or with special care. However... please trust me on this (lots and lots of experience here)... for the low action sometimes associated with Rics, these things become wobble city, because the break angle is too shallow to keep the saddles in place. The Ric bridge can have this low break angle and be okay due to the way the bridge is put together... if a Ric bridge saddle wobbles it's basically for a totally different reason, a fitting issue really. The new saddles (as of August 2010) don't seem to have that problem any more.

I have heard Hipshot are trying to improve the design, I know I sent them a lot of constructive criticism two years ago and they at least took it seriously enough to contact me with their thoughts about the problems.

[Lost Coyotes]

Joshua, I'll take your word that some hipshot saddles wobble. I cannot speak to any but my own. Maybe it's because I do my setups with special care.
I just looked closely, and I think the action is pretty low, like 5/32" at the 20th fret.
I can move the G string saddle with my finger by pushing side to side on the string, immediately next to the saddle...I can't really move the others at all, deliberately, and there is no way they are wobbling when playing that is significant in any way.
I don't get it, maybe mine is defective... but if they should wobble and still don't, then let's just say I'm a lucky guy.

[pag]

I think you should send the old tailpiece to me!

I just bought a three screw C64 tail for my 1990 4001CS that had a slight tail lift.
It looks great with just three holes to secure it.
Hope it doesnt bend!

Keep the old tail.

[Lost Coyotes]

I think you should send the old tailpiece to me!

I just bought a three screw C64 tail for my 1990 4001CS that had a slight tail lift.
It looks great with just three holes to secure it.
Hope it doesnt bend!

Keep the old tail.

Hiya Pete,
How've you been?
Yes, they do look good like that, don't they.
I intend to keep the old gap-tooth safely stashed, because when I die I want my kids to be able to sell the instrument in it's most valuable condition.

I posted a while back, a simple method of how I bent a (May '73 and later) tail piece back to shape with a plain old board and a c-clamp. Once that was done, and then using the washer/shim under the tp idea, it has remained flat as a pancake. I have picked up lots of great tips here.

[pag]

Might try that!

I had some tech problem that wouldnt log me in as seyesbass si I re-registered as pag.
Might as well stick with this as it works!

Cheers,

pete.

[aceonbass]

It looks great with just three holes to secure it.
Hope it doesnt bend!

Oh it will Pete. Just wait. You use Rotosound strings too as I remember, so it WILL happen. In my opinion, unless RIC comes out with a cast aluminum tailpiece again, the best solution is a 5 screw tailpiece with the post-73 rear screws deleted and the early 4003 screw location added. While die-cast zinc is stronger than aluminum, the present casting with all it's voids, isn't as solid as the aluminum casting, which is why it bends.
As far as the Hipshot goes, unline the Schaller and ABM bridges, the Hipshot saddles on their replacement RIC bridge have space between them with no dividers to limit lateral movement. The same saddles are used on their Supertone bridge for Gibson basses, and in that application the dividers are present. When the saddles are dropped all the way down on the Hipshot RIC replacement, the downward string tension on them is less. Since the slots in the bridge plate that the heighth adjustment screws fit into aren't that deep, this allows the saddles to move sideways. As Joshua said, you also can't go as low as a stock RIC bridge with the Hipshot. The neck pickup route is so massive on many RIC basses (including the newer ones) that the neck actually flexes slightly at that point, resulting in a shallower neck angle. Hipshot apparently spent more time copying the look of the RIC part without looking at other specs which make it work and sound the way it does. As I've said many times before, the stock part can be modified to work as well as the Hipshot for much less than the cost of one and without all it's quirks. In fact Joshua has one of my modded tailpieces on Ebay right now.