Well, now this is interesting . . .

[weemac]

I don't give a toss what it is made of. But that turq is probably in the top three of 4004s that I have liked the look of.....
(perhaps in the top two..)

Eden.

[cassius987]

There are some other minor discrepancies on the RIC website about models and I think it's because RIC is still sussing out how they like certain parameters to be like neck/fingerboard taper, fingerboard material (bubinga or related rosewoods)... at least that's the impression I get. Ultimately I'd rather RIC worked on their backlog like they are doing than clean up minute web site errors but I admit that'd be a cool thing to see, too. When you realize the pics of the models are all several years old I think it's telling enough that some information may not be totally current.

Hey Ben, thanks for having this discussion with us--you are great, much respect. Hope we aren't getting under your skin nitpicking about this because your input means a lot.

[RIC_FACTORY]

But you are building a bass that isn't built according to your advertised specs. If you aren't going to build them as advertised, what's stopping you from putting a maple fret board on them and not telling anybody? You should at least put on your website and pricesheets that solid color Ciis are made of hardwood, like the L is listed, so there won't be any confusion. That's my only point.

You're not comparing apples to oranges here. We're talking about solid colors. You're trying to compare a maple fretboard, which totally changes the look of the instrument to something that nobody is ever going to see (all maple Cii JG). Since it doesn't affect the sound of the instrument as the walnut is purely cosmetic, who cares if under all that black paint there is no walnut sandwich? In fact, an all maple Cii JG without the walnut is better from the standpoint that you won't have that inevitable shrinkback into the walnut on the sides of the bass.

And what's the deal with the hardwood "discrepancy" you're talking about? Hardrock maple is hardwood and so are walnut and bubinga. I would think the name "hardrock" might clue one in to the fact that it is a hardwood. All current guitars are made out of the same hardrock maple. We don't use any softwoods whatsoever in the construction of our guitars.

[cjj]

I think the issue is that on the page for the Cii:

http://www.rickenbacker.com/model.asp?model=4004Cii

It specifically lists Body Wood as "Hardrock Maple, Walnut", and also says, "this exquisite bass is sculpted from solid Maple and Walnut", so if there's not actually any walnut, one might see this as a discrepancy...

[RIC_FACTORY]

Every transparent colored 4004Cii has walnut in the body, so that is accurate. If we put a disclaimer "all 4004Cii models painted JG or MID will have all maple bodies" who would care? I seriously doubt anyone has ever placed an order for a solid color Cii because of the walnut. Kind of defeats the point of the walnut sandwich to begin with.

If this is how nitpicky folks are going to get, I wonder how they will react when I mention that many 4003 JG's have maple ears? Should we add that to the site too?

[cjj]

I would hope that the vast majority of people would react as you have implied, "Who cares?" In my case, when it comes to wood, well, I care about how it looks and hence, own mostly transparent finishes, but on a solid color, I too would say, "Who cares?" as long as it sounds the same.

But, there are always a few people take the world far too literally...

[rickaddict]

If this is how nitpicky folks are going to get, I wonder how they will react when I mention that many 4003 JG's have maple ears? Should we add that to the site too?

GASP!

[sloop_john_b]

If this is how nitpicky folks are going to get, I wonder how they will react when I mention that many 4003 JG's have maple ears? Should we add that to the site too?

Not just JG's. I found out the hard way when my 2007 4003 AFG came in w/ maple ears, after you guys were cranking out basses with walnut wings for nigh on two years. Thanks again.

[incubus2432]

I totally disagree that the walnut sandwich basses sound the same as solid maple. I've owned more than a few of each and in every case the solid maple sounded brighter (maybe a coincidence but I doubt it). I'm sure I'll be told that I'm wrong about the tonal difference though. I'd be a tad upset if I bought a Laredo and got a walnut sandwich but the specs only state "hardwood" so I accept that getting solid maple on a solid color may be a **** shoot.

One other point to make is that I would assume a Cii is priced at a premium over the Laredo partially because of the flamed maple facings and extra work involved in making the walnut sandwich body......correct? So when you get a solid color Cii potentially the only difference from a spec'd Laredo is the gold hardware? Something about that doesn't sit well with me. While I agree that whoever orders a Cii in a solid color is not reaping the visual benefit of the flamed maple or walnut sandwich that is irrelevant since, per Cii specs, they should be there regardless otherwise a disclaimer should be included. Period. Certainly anomalies happen and that shouldn't be a big deal but to have the substitutions done as a matter of practice is a bit misleading.

I order a custom carbon fiber hood for my Buick and pay a premium for it then receive a lightweight fiberglass version that looks identical should I not be upset? Call me nitpicky I suppose.

[cassius987]

I thought the maple headstock wing AFGs were supposed to mimic the older look, like an aged FG from the early to late 1980s, since that's what the finish was kind of based on.

It's funny (to me), I've actually read posts and comments by people complaining when they discovered their JG *did* have walnut wings (thanks to a dent or something) every now and then.

[RIC_FACTORY]

I totally disagree that the walnut sandwich basses sound the same as solid maple. I've owned more than a few of each and in every case the solid maple sounded brighter (maybe a coincidence but I doubt it). I'm sure I'll be told that I'm wrong about the tonal difference though. I'd be a tad upset if I bought a Laredo and got a walnut sandwich but the specs only state "hardwood" so I accept that getting solid maple on a solid color may be a **** shoot.

One other point to make is that I would assume a Cii is priced at a premium over the Laredo partially because of the flamed maple facings and extra work involved in making the walnut sandwich body......correct? So when you get a solid color Cii potentially the only difference from a spec'd Laredo is the gold hardware? Something about that doesn't sit well with me. While I agree that whoever orders a Cii in a solid color is not reaping the visual benefit of the flamed maple or walnut sandwich that is irrelevant since, per Cii specs, they should be there regardless otherwise a disclaimer should be included. Period. Certainly anomalies happen and that shouldn't be a big deal but to have the substitutions done as a matter of practice is a bit misleading.

I order a custom carbon fiber hood for my Buick and pay a premium for it then receive a lightweight fiberglass version that looks identical should I not be upset? Call me nitpicky I suppose.

Actually, one point is that plating parts gold is more expensive than plating them chrome. The extra 2 minutes it takes to put together the sandwich is not that big a deal. And for what it's worth, we have very few 4004Cii's on backorder in JG or MID, so folks are obviously more willing to pay a premium for the figured maple/walnut aesthetic. Also, from a quality standpoint, an all maple body looks better on a JG or MID because you won't see the walnut grain on the side of the instrument. We have built plenty of 4004Cii's in this manner and my setup guys couldn't tell the difference. I have never once seen a thread where someone claims one Cii sounds different from another and I've never talked to a customer that made the same claim. After we put the filler on and all of the clear coats the wood is pretty much encased. This kind of goes back to the whole "thin skin" nitro discussion where so many people bought into how the finish affects tone on a guitar, even though those thin skin guitars were buried in Fullerplast. Complete hogwash.

Maybe you missed my point about the hardwoods? Walnut IS a hardwood, so how is the description there inaccurate? If we were to use a softwood instead of a hardwood, you would most definitely hear a difference. And where was it ever advertised that the Cii sounds different from the Laredo? The 4004L came about when the Ci was offered. If the walnut on the old version was bad, we painted it black so as not to scrap a perfectly good instrument. When we say "hardwood" we mean maple AND walnut. Of course, we mostly use maple.

Not just JG's. I found out the hard way when my 2007 4003 AFG came in w/ maple ears, after you guys were cranking out basses with walnut wings for nigh on two years. Thanks again.

We went over that a long time ago. As tangentially related as your post is, I can't help but think the sarcasm has to do with the axe you're grinding since your attempt to sell ripoff horseshoe pickups a month or two ago.

[sloop_john_b]

We went over that a long time ago. As tangentially related as your post is, I can't help but think the sarcasm has to do with the axe you're grinding since your attempt to sell ripoff horseshoe pickups a month or two ago.

They were Lollar Toasters, and they're long sold. Everybody's happy, no axe to grind here.

[nukebass]

Actually, one point is that plating parts gold is more expensive than plating them chrome. The extra 2 minutes it takes to put together the sandwich is not that big a deal. And for what it's worth, we have very few 4004Cii's on backorder in JG or MID, so folks are obviously more willing to pay a premium for the figured maple/walnut aesthetic. Also, from a quality standpoint, an all maple body looks better on a JG or MID because you won't see the walnut grain on the side of the instrument. We have built plenty of 4004Cii's in this manner and my setup guys couldn't tell the difference. I have never once seen a thread where someone claims one Cii sounds different from another and I've never talked to a customer that made the same claim. After we put the filler on and all of the clear coats the wood is pretty much encased. This kind of goes back to the whole "thin skin" nitro discussion where so many people bought into how the finish affects tone on a guitar, even though those thin skin guitars were buried in Fullerplast. Complete hogwash.

Maybe you missed my point about the hardwoods? Walnut IS a hardwood, so how is the description there inaccurate? If we were to use a softwood instead of a hardwood, you would most definitely hear a difference. And where was it ever advertised that the Cii sounds different from the Laredo? The 4004L came about when the Ci was offered. If the walnut on the old version was bad, we painted it black so as not to scrap a perfectly good instrument. When we say "hardwood" we mean maple AND walnut. Of course, we mostly use maple.

I fully understand that walnut and maple are both hardwoods. I was just pointing out that the L lists hardwood as the body wood whereas the Cii is much more specific listing maple and walnut. Maybe I've always misread the price and specsheets to mean Maple and Walnut and not Maple or Walnut. You're reasoning behind using maple, if needed, on a solid color Cii makes perfect sense and I have no problem with it at all (especially since I have a BBR Cii with plenty of wood grain ). I was just pointing out that, as a consumer, I would like to have the most accurate information available on the lists. If I ever do get a solid color Cii, I just won't look

[RIC_FACTORY]

They were Lollar Toasters, and they're long sold. Everybody's happy, no axe to grind here.

Exactly, they were knockoffs...

Ryan, the website does need to be updated to clarify some things, no question about that. My overriding point is that there is nothing so inaccurate so as to affect what the customer actually gets. If something facilitates production and does not affect the look and sound of the end product in any way, we do it so our customers can get their guitars faster.

[cassius987]

Ryan, the website does need to be updated to clarify some things, no question about that. My overriding point is that there is nothing so inaccurate so as to affect what the customer actually gets. If something facilitates production and does not affect the look and sound of the end product in any way, we do it so our customers can get their guitars faster.

That seems to sum it up pretty nicely.