Cannot use TI flats on new Rickenbacker 360/12c63

[mike_d]

I was told by Rickenbacker service that I would be voiding my warranty by using a set of TI flats I purchased from POTR for my new 360/12c63. I bought it about 3 weeks ago. Apparently, even the TI flats have too much tension for these guitars and the treble side truss rod would not adjust properly. The guitar was sent to Rickenbacker as the tech setting up the guitar with TI's was under the impression there was a problem with the truss rod.

I had always heard from all of the proponents around here that TI's were the ideal alternative to Pyramids, which are way too much tension. i was also told by Rickenbacker that these guitars do not ship with D'Addario strings, although it came with strings with colored ball ends. The new Ric strings use the same colored ball ends but are not the same strings. Looks like I will only ever be able to use round wounds on this guitar. I don't really like using round wounds. Go figure.

[jingle_jangle]

Rickenbacker is choosing to be conservative in their string recommendations, for excellent reason. You'd do the same in their position. Unless you can dictate a set of conditions that you know are acceptable 98% of the time, you'll get hit with all sorts of outlandish warranty claims.

Just use RIC round wounds until your warranty is up. Then use whatever the heck you want to use, but keep an eye on the neck and action. Any signs of issues, you'll know not to use whatever strings are on it at the time. Go back to the lower-tension RIC strings and you'll be OK.

The point is to catch any inconsistencies just as they begin to happen, while they're easily reversible.

I use the TI flats on several of my Rick 12ers, including my CW/12. No issues (yet--1 year into their use). I also use Pyramids on my '68 625, and after 2 years, no issues. YMMV.

[mike_d]

I've used Pyramid flats for years on my 325 short scale Rics with no issues whatsoever. I've never tried TI's on a Ric 12 string before and thought I'd give them a shot on this guitar, IMO, the king of the Ric 12 strings. I spent a fortune on this guitar and sold two other Rics just to buy it. I guess I'll have to be gentle with this one as it can't handle flats.

[jingle_jangle]

Ummm, read my above post a bit more carefully.

It's not that it "can't handle flats", and these sorts of statements, when they turn up in a Google search, are the beginnings of rumors that are a lot of work to quash.

Rather, it's that RIC wants to be cautious and cover all the bases when issuing yeses and nos, so as not to encourage experimentation.

Experimentation, of course, is an owner/player's right. RIC just wants you to know that as long as the guitar is under warranty, it won't cover your own potential poor choices and haywire experiments. And, although TIs are far from "haywire", it's prudent to exercise caution. After it's out of warranty, you're on your own.

[johnhall]

You can use any string you care to- we certainly don't say you have to use any one type in particular. There's zillions of sets of all types that will generally work quite well on our instruments. There's only a few that don't work fine.

But what we're going to service under warranty is an entirely different situation. The guitar was built and set up with one and only one style, gauge and tension in mind. If someone is having a problem we feel is related to their use of some other string, then it's not a warranty issue. At the same time, it doesn't mean you can't successfully use them either, only that you and your tech will be the ones to do the experimentation and adjustment.

[mike_d]

Well, I had this guitar for about a week before I took it in to be "properly" set up by the dealer that sold it to me. Their tech was out on vacation the day I bought it, so I took it back in after he returned. The dealer himself, said it still need to be adjusted as the factory setup still needed some work, the bridge in particular. I asked them if they could install a set of TI' flat as I had heard a lot of good things about them over the years, but never actually had the opportunity to try them out. I've owned several Ric 12's over the years,including a 366/12, 360/12v64, 330/12 and still have a 325/12v63. (I also currently own a 325c58, 325c64 and a 1996). I thought the TI's would be a pretty conservative choice. After he put them on, he noticed that he could not adjust the treble side truss rod and that it was spinning in place and thought there was a problem with the truss rod, so they sent it in for me. I never imagined something as simple as a set of strings could cause such a hassle.

I didn't even get a chance to try the TI's out and it cost me about $40 bucks with shipping. I'm a bit discouraged because this is the most money I have ever spent on a guitar and I haven't even had the chance to really enjoy it yet.

[RonLovesRic12strings]

I do not own a newer RIC 12, but I've installed the TI flats on both my 370/12 RM (1990) and 360/12 V64 (1991). The two guitars sound fantastic with these strings, and there seems to be less tension with the TI's (easier to play) than with the RIC round-wounds. I even installed the TI flats on my cousin's 2005 RIC 360/12 with no ill effects...he also loves them. An added benefit is the guitars intonate better with the TI flats (especially on the A string pairs and low E string pairs)...go figure.

[jfine]

Interesting! Back in the '60's, when my only decent guitar was a Vox Phantom XII, (I wanted a Rickenbacker, but I couldn't find one) I used Rickenbacker flatwound strings on it, and that's what Ric used on their own twelve-strings. No less a player than Pete Townshend has said that he prefers flatwounds (and I think he specfied Rickenbackers) on his Ric twelves. Does Ric even offer a flatwound 12-string set anymore?

[jingle_jangle]

Rick's 12-string set is a ground roundwound set, somewhere between flat and round, with sonic characteristics of both. They seem a bit closer to round than flat in their sound, to me.

I'd be willing to say that the spinning treble truss rod is a result of a non-Rick tech with too much torque in his hands, giving the nut too much or too fast of a twist, rather than the strings or the "factory set up".

Factory setup is always a sort of "fits all" thing and I see it as suiting a lot of players, but also a good starting point for tweaking the action to suit a more demanding player. The problem arises when a tech, having seen and played a Rick that was set up really low, or having heard that this is possible or even desirable (it's not necessarily, depending upon your playing style), attempts to achieve very low action without taking the care or time required.

All sorts of anomalies can arise, and non-Rick-fluent techs can get in over their heads very quickly. A spinning truss rod on a nearly new Rick is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. But it must be corrected in order to be able to get the neck to function properly.

[ken_j]

I used TI flats on a C63 from day one with no issues. I was so happy with these strings I can't imagine using anything else. I agree with Paul get the right person to do the set up (if you are unable to do it yourself). Someone that will take time to let the guitar settle between small adjustments.

[mike_d]

Rick's 12-string set is a ground roundwound set, somewhere between flat and round, with sonic characteristics of both. They seem a bit closer to round than flat in their sound, to me.

I'd be willing to say that the spinning treble truss rod is a result of a non-Rick tech with too much torque in his hands, giving the nut too much or too fast of a twist, rather than the strings or the "factory set up".

Factory setup is always a sort of "fits all" thing and I see it as suiting a lot of players, but also a good starting point for tweaking the action to suit a more demanding player. The problem arises when a tech, having seen and played a Rick that was set up really low, or having heard that this is possible or even desirable (it's not necessarily, depending upon your playing style), attempts to achieve very low action without taking the care or time required.

All sorts of anomalies can arise, and non-Rick-fluent techs can get in over their heads very quickly. A spinning truss rod on a nearly new Rick is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. But it must be corrected in order to be able to get the neck to function properly.

This tech is quite skilled with Rics and has worked with them for a long time. I trust his judgement. He's quite well
respected and the dealer is as well and loves Rics.

[mike_d]

Rick's 12-string set is a ground roundwound set, somewhere between flat and round, with sonic characteristics of both. They seem a bit closer to round than flat in their sound, to me.
.

BTW, the strings on this guitar had colored ball ends and were unlike any of the Ric 12 string strings I've used over the past 20 years. They did not appear to be or even feel like a set of ground roundwounds. Do all new Rics come with D'addario looking strings with colored ball ends? I have spare sets of Ric 12 string sets that feel different than the ones supplied by the factory on this guitar.

[johnhall]

I overhead someone in the shop said this guitar came in with a a set of TI 12's installed on it. No matter the brand, if that's really true, there's going to be nothing but trouble with this guitar. The spec is 10's . . .

FYI, everyone has colored ball ends available these days. We are slowly switching over to platinum colored ends for all our strings as part of the realignment of our string progam. This pprogarm, to show up at NAMM, is to help make them more available at all of our dealers and in the foreign markets as well.

[jingle_jangle]

Yikes!!! Non-Rick tech hears, "TI 12s" and instead of putting a .010 12-string set of TIs on it, puts a set of TI .012s on it.

Explains a lot. Also underscores the whole warranty thing. Don't mess with the specs unless you know what you're doing. This tech apparently didn't know what he was doing.

[cassius987]

If one your rods isn't working I think that is the bigger issue than strings, contact RIC CS per your warranty since you're still using stock strings.