Bridge Pickup Surround Change

[FretlessOnly]

I just spent a good half-hour searching several sub-forums to avoid asking this question, so sorry for asking it, as I know the info is here somewhere:

The 4001/4003 treble pickup "surround" seems to have at least three versions.

1. The 60s style with a larger footprint on the tailpiece side of the bass face;
2. The early 70s style with a more symmetrical footprint; and
3. The 4003 style which is similar to the 70s style except that the edges where the strings pass over are "scooped" or lowered to presumeably accept lower action. THere was a thread back in 2006 or so where this question was asked (86Kubicki?) but never answered.

Can anyone fill me in on when these styles were used? Perhaps some of style #3 were used in '73 (I doubt it)? I did a search in the register as well and found a '73 or two that had the lowered edges, but these might be mods. Most had the surround with edges on a single plane, as it were.

I'm a bit annoyed, as I thought I'd reconciled the issues with my April '73 4001FL that was described as "all original" except for finish removal on the back of my bass. Now it would appear that the surrounds with lowered edges are a later feature.

Live and learn, I suppose. It's still a great player.

Thanks

[egosheep]

Can you post some pictures of the different kinds? I have seen several Combo 800's with the "scooped" surrounds, so I don't think its a modern feature.

[FretlessOnly]

Here's what I found on this forum, so thanks to those involved:

#1

As nice as that is, that's not what I'm asking about.

Here's what I am asking about:

#2

70s surround.jpg (11.28 KiB) Viewed 1190 times

See how the top edges are all flush?

What I think is a later version:

#3

See how the edges that the strings pass over are scooped out to facilitate lower action (presumably)?

My question is: were any of #3 used in '73? Or, is a scooped surround on a '73 a sign of a replacement part?

I think I know the answer, (and I don't much care for it), but I thought I'd check.

[jaymi]

all of the 73's that I have ever had were the first example...no scoops....

[bassduke49]

Actually, there are a lot more variations than three. There were at least three different versions of the old Horseshoe surround (with the longer tapered end toward the tailpiece), and the more modern type varied some, too. They were made for a while with sharp (read OUCH!) outer corners, and then the two you speak of with the straight or scooped inner edges. I haven't studied these as far as time line goes, and that can be muddled by owners replacing parts over the years.

[cjj]

Dunno about 1973, but my 1976 has the non-scooped version:

So does my 1984 4003:

[FretlessOnly]

Thanks for the replies. I figured there must be more than three permutations, but my question revolves around the scooped vs. non-scooped, as it were. Although more data wouldn't hurt, it seems to have been answered.

[jps]

Here is an example of a "sharp" edged surround, from my March '73 4001.

[heinpete]

There are quite a few examples of scooped surrounds on 1972-basses! ...or even earlier ones?

[BAD RONBO, KiLLeR DWaRfS]

i don't know about the "lower action theory" for the 4003 basses with the scooped suround as the fretboard is higher off the fretboard than the '60's early '70's 4001 basses. this would make the strings higher off the body, thus not needing the scoop. my '73 geddy model had the flat surround and the strings did not interfere.

so...three '60's type large footprint, one late '60's small footprint into early '70's sharp edge scooped, early '70's slightly rounded edge scooped, early '70's rounded non scooped, then the rounded scooped to current basses, plus two surrounds for the v63 series slightly rounded and largely rounded , scooped with large footprint...that's 9 surrounds, any i missed ???

[cassius987]

I've only seen the scooped surround on newer basses, I agree with John that it is probably there to make setups easier.

The vintage Rics I've played, all 1970s, had the non-scooped variety.

[ilan]

IME Black Trim basses still had non-scooped surrounds when other basses with chrome hardware were already equipped with the scooped variety. Both my '86 BT basses (my Shadow and my son's S/BT) have non-scooped surrounds.

[cheyenne]

Here's my '88 V63, different yet than the V pictured at the top of this thread.

[BAD RONBO, KiLLeR DWaRfS]

yep, that's the slightly rounded one as i bought for my RM '64 as opposed to -the really rounded one on some others. those re-issues need to have a matching surround and pickguard radius's, or else there's too much space happening where they meet. i've seen them mixed back and forth. sorry...i'm picky.

my MD '73 had a scoop and my MJ '73 did not.

[jps]

The sharp edge surround on my March '73 is not scooped.