CV or Poly

[Prowl]

I can't seem to get a hold of RIC today, or for the past week so I'm thinking they're closed for the Holiday coming up. I was curious because I've been seeing a few different responses on this but is RiC using conversion varnish or uv poly on their guitars and basses? I'm trying to figure out my options for sealing my refin. I'm looking to do a matte finish like the C64S. Any insight from the gurus would be great

[cjj]

Well, it depends on when your guitar was made. Everything has been CV from the late '50s until sometime in 2010 (April?) when they switched to a UV cured finish. Exactly what that UV finish is, I'm not sure...

Edit: Ah, found it. Pretty much everything after week 16 of 2010, which would be April 19.

[jingle_jangle]

Once again, I'll point out that "poly" is not a specific enough term where plastics are concerned. And these finishes are exactly that--liquid plastic (lest you "nitro" fans feel inspired to feel self-righteous, lacquer is a plastic coating, too...).

So, in guitar finishes, you could be talking about polyester or polyurethane (in this case). The UV-cured material now being used is polyester. The "old" CVs were two-part, acid-catalyzed polyurethanes.

RIC's glossy finishes are now polyester, but I'd suggest using a polyurethane for the matte finish like a C64S. My personal choice is PPG DCU 2060 "Flexed and Flat". The ratio is 6 parts of DCU 2060 with 1 part of DCX 61, reduced with 6 parts of DT 870 solvent. Spray at 22-25 PSI, one mist coat and two double wet coats, 5 minutes between coats, 1.4mm nozzle.

[SMR 78]

Ben Hall of Rickenbacker posted on their forum that the UV finishes started in week 16 of 2010.

edit - sorry CJ beat me to it - see link above

[Prowl]

Once again, I'll point out that "poly" is not a specific enough term where plastics are concerned. And these finishes are exactly that--liquid plastic (lest you "nitro" fans feel inspired to feel self-righteous, lacquer is a plastic coating, too...).

So, in guitar finishes, you could be talking about polyester or polyurethane (in this case). The UV-cured material now being used is polyester. The "old" CVs were two-part, acid-catalyzed polyurethanes.

RIC's glossy finishes are now polyester, but I'd suggest using a polyurethane for the matte finish like a C64S. My personal choice is PPG DCU 2060 "Flexed and Flat". The ratio is 6 parts of DCU 2060 with 1 part of DCX 61, reduced with 6 parts of DT 870 solvent. Spray at 22-25 PSI, one mist coat and two double wet coats, 5 minutes between coats, 1.4mm nozzle.

flatclear.jpg

Paul is there a wet sand at the end of this or a dry sand? Wet sanding and buffing would make it glossy and that wouldn't work if I'm going for the flat feel.

[jingle_jangle]

In the case of this matte finish, WYSIWYG. No sanding, buffing, or any post-operations. So, make sure your surface is as perfect as you can make it, tackprag it just prior to the mist coat. Once you've mist-coated, any static charge will be dispersed, and it will no longer attract dust, but you should still spray in a dust-free area, as you can't sand out and polish any nibs that remain.

Let the completed CV coating cure at least overnight, and test for tack and hardness in an inconspicuous place (control cavity is best). It takes approximately 72 hours at 70 degrees F to achieve final level of matte-ness and full film strength.

[cassius987]

I am really happy with my polyester finish 4003; the body was made some time in the summer of this year I guess. It looks and feels the same but I can tell it's more durable, normally I ding my basses in just a few hours but this one has yet to see any obvious dings or dents. Obviously the sound has not changed a bit.

[Prowl]

Ben Hall actually took the time out of his day to send me a PM which was very nice. I wish I could thank him but it seems its not allowed. I think I'm going to go the Polyurethane route like Paul suggested. I'll hit the bass with 2k grit paper and a tack rag to make sure its absolutely clean and then hit it with the clear. Thanks again guys

[jingle_jangle]

if you're talking about applying the F n F over raw maple, I'd say seal it first with vinyl sealer and scuff it with #320, dry, to settle the grain.

2000 grit is way too fine to sand under the CV, either flat or glossy. Use #400 for best results to prep, wipe with tack cloth, and give it a number of coats of F n F as described above.

[RIC_FACTORY]

Agreed.

Sanding with 2000 grit will cause adhesion problems (besides being a ton of work!). We use 320 and 400 for sealer operations, like Paul described.

[Prowl]

Paul if I were just going to just seal it what would you recommend. I know for a fact that I'll definitely not being going the glossy route. If I use a vinyl sealer and hit it with 320 wouldn't the 320 scratch show? I like the way the bass looks and feels as it is right now, but I'm more so worried about sweat because the raw would will obviously fray and get rough. I know a diluted Tung-Oil and polyurethane would sort of give it a darker tinge and not protect it against dings. I'm not worried about dings and dents as I'm pretty careful about how I handle my bass. I'm only worried about the wood getting splintered and stuff.

[Prowl]

Agreed.

Sanding with 2000 grit will cause adhesion problems (besides being a ton of work!). We use 320 and 400 for sealer operations, like Paul described.

I was just curious about the scratches showing in the sealer. Thats pretty much the only stage this bass is going to have.

[jingle_jangle]

Sealer won't do an acceptable job of protecting a working instrument from dirt and sweat. It'll look like all those rag-nasty hulks you see for sale on Ebay, where the owner stripped the body for what ever reason, and got lazy about painting it properly.

If you've come this far, pop for the matte CV. It ain't cheap, but it looks great and lasts decades with proper care. A sealed maple bass won't last one season if it's played out regularly.

[Prowl]

ok, thanks guys. I'll have pics posted by mid week. Hope you all have a fantastic thanksgiving