Tremelo-equipped guitars

[JakeK]

Reading back through a thread on the Stratocaster in The Groove Yard forum has me wanting to talk about tremelo-equipped guitars.

Mike S, I remember you saying that you'd hate to break a string on a Strat when playing live because the whole thing goes out of tune. Is that with the tremelo installed?

I never use the Tremelo on a Strat simply because I do not like it. It just never moved me, and therefore, my sole Strat ('62 AVRI) has been treated like a hard-tail. If I wanted to use tremelo/whammy bar/vibrato bending, I would prefer the Jaguar/Jazzmaster tremelo, or a Gretsch with a Bigsby.

Who has a tremelo on what guitar(s)?

[paologregorio]

I do, on all but two of my six strings. The original type Strat vibrato will go out of tune if a string breaks, unless the unit is adjusted so the back edge is resting flush with the body, or "blocked" so it can't move. There are some after market accessories that can be installed on the unit to prevent this from happening, but I've never used those. IIRC, some later Fender units will not go out of tune if a string breaks, but I'm not sure about that. IIRC, there are also some drop in replacements that will not.

An Accent or Bigsby unit will stay in tune even if a string breaks, in my experience.

[jingle_jangle]

It ain't a "tremelo". It's a "tremolo" (Leo's spelling).

Oh, and it ain't a "tremolo", either. It's a "vibrato".

Tremelo is a variation in amplitude.

Vibrato is a variation in frequency.

Leo Fender (not a guitarist) switched these and never corrected himself. His amps have "vibrato", and his guitars "tremolo".

[antipodean]

I've used the following vibrato-equipped guitars:

- Yamaha '60s Banana guitar (my first electric)
- Cheap Cimar Stratesque copy
- Strat
- PRS custom (Stratesque vibrato)
- Jaguar
- Gretsch 6119 with Bigsby
- Mosrite Ventures with Moseley vibrato
- Rick 330 with after-market Accent

I have never broken a string when playing any of these guitars... so no first hand experience, sadly... First hand I can tell you that a P bass and a Rick 4000 will go wildly out of tune if you break a string....

Pondering the tuning issue: when you break a string on a non-vibrato guitar, the guitar should go out of tune slightly due to the loss of tension - the neck should lose a little relief ( i.e. backbow slightly relative to its original position) and the remaining strings should go sharp as the neck movement puts them under a little more tension, though this will be very slightly counteracted by the tiny increase in scale that results from the change in relief - assuming the neck is moving towards being straight rather than being truly back-bowed. With a vibrato, the vibrato springs will also be under less tension after a string break and the anchor point will move (ever so slightly) to put more tension on the remaining strings - again pulling them sharp. One would guess that the vibrato would take up more of the adjustment than the neck (i.e. a vibrato-equipped guitar will have less neck movement as the movement in the vibrato anchor piece is "taking up slack" so to speak by putting the remaining strings under higher tension). How much your guitar goes out of tune will vary with string gauge, neck stability and vibrato spring strength. So in theory any vibrato equipped guitar should go out of tune with a broken string - but the variables will alter the result to the extent that it may be insignificant in some cases. I note also that as most string sets will have different strings at different tensions, the relative tuning can go haywire as some strings will go more out of tune that others. Of course, this is just me off the top of my head so it could all be hogwash.....

In terms of useful vibrato - I would rate the Moseley the best - smooth with a wide range of travel. The strat/PRS and Bigsby fall into equal (and very close) second. The Accent is cool for subtle effects and is more utilitarian IMHO than an "R" tailpiece, and the Jag is in the same ball-park for my purposes. This caveat is really important - the genre of music you play and your technique have a huge impact upon the utility of a particular vibrato. If you find yourself gravitating towards a specific vibrato design, it's probably right for you, and not some horrendous defect in your judgement....

BTW I didn't rate the Yamaha - I was young and even more stupid then so any opinion I espouse has to be taken with a grain of salt.. but I remember it being horrible..

[whojamfan]

I was quite fond of Pauls accents that I played recently-much more so than the Strat I own. Seriously considering one for my 330, only about 400th on my list of things to do.
Broke a D string on my Les Paul at rehearsal tonight, and still made it through 2 more tunes before I replaced it, tuning was ok, good enough for government work

[dogload]

I have an 80's Fender Paisley Strat and very early 80's Tokai 'Strat', both with trems, and a '96 Fender Jaguar.
I love the trem on the Tokai, bog-standard Strat-type, but it is one of those where you can pick the guitar up by the handle and it still returns to tune, even after much dive-bombing.
The actual Fender one on the paisley Strat is pretty normal for a Strat tremolo, but it has stripped threads in the trem block, causing the arm to be fixed in with cigarette foil or Rizla packets.
I haven't had the Jag too long, so am still tentatively dipping my toe in the waters of bendability!

[shamustwin]

Yep. long time Strat-egist here. Break a string on a trem equipped Strat in the middle of a tune, forget about playing the rest of the song!

And on my old '64 with it's rusty saddles, they'd break often. On new '60 reissue I've only broken one string, the rest are three years old.

I take off the whammy bar and just use my palm to manipulate the unit ( that sound risque!), to nice effect.

Only one of my Ricks is trem equipped, no experience with broken strings so far.
That said, I'll be playing it live next Saturday and have just doomed myself to breaking a string mid song.

[Chrome Aardvark]

Both my six-stringers, a Rickenbacker 365 and a Fender Jazzmaster, come vibrato equipped.

Having had the Rickenbacker for years before purchasing the Jazzmaster I'd become accustomed to using the accent vibrato with the back of my hand while picking, which has become ingrained in my playing. When the Jazzmaster turned up it meant that I had to take a different approach to my attack, it also has the advantage of being able pulled up as well dropping down.

Both these guitars pretty much stay in tune when a string snaps, though the Ric goes sharp when you overdo the bending. The fact that I've effectively destroyed two accent vibrato in the 17 years I've owned it and that is now with Paul W getting a neck reset kind of suggests I might.

[antipodean]

the Ric goes sharp when you overdo the bending. The fact that I've effectively destroyed two accent vibrato in the 17 years I've owned it and that is now with Paul W getting a neck reset kind of suggests I might.

Ouch!!!! I'm trying to get my head around just how vigorous your vibrato technique must be Rod.... Gotta sound cool though!!!

[Chrome Aardvark]

It really does sound great and no other vibrato has the same feel, or sound, as the accent. There's just something that is inexplicably cool about it.

[whojamfan]

Expecting a Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose on tuesday that has a Bigsby on it(big surprise eh? )
Can't wait to really see what that's like.

[paologregorio]

Expecting a Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose on tuesday that has a Bigsby on it(big surprise eh? )
Can't wait to really see what that's like.

Congrats; they're cool! A `65 Gretsch Tenny with a Bigsby was the first Gretsch I ever bought, and remains in the stable. I didn't know you liked those; you could have tried it last time you were over.

[whojamfan]

I will be bringing her over after I get her Paul, I know nothing about their quirks and such, and need an experts crash course on how to get the most out it. I've always wanted one, and a great opportunity unfolded itself last week and I figured I'd take the plunge.

Can't wait to put a Floyd Rose and some EMGs in it Sooo kidding!

I was looking at that Chet Atkins Bigsby arm to replace the stock one, since I liked the feel of your accent so much!

[jps]

I liked the feel of your accent so much!

Hey, this is a family forum!

[whojamfan]

I liked the feel of your accent so much!

Hey, this is a family forum!

hahahaha-his accent is fantastic!