Bring back the 4003s?

[cassius987]

Jeff, Dane would know about used 4004 prices... I've seen him take some pretty serious blows on some nice basses he sold last year and the year before. They just don't fare well used, whether or not eBay sellers price them with high BINs. A 4003S is a pretty obvious collector's item and from what I have seen they do go for more than a 4004, but how much more I can't say.

We know you're not trying to lie to anyone, I think the deal is who has really been watching the 4004 market and who hasn't. I never used to watch the 4004 market but now I've played 5 or 6 and some day I might consider adding one; since I started looking I realized not only are the used ones crazy cheap but even the new ones aren't as pricy as the MSRP leads you to think they will be.

[MaplegloMatt]

I'm not trying to lie to anyone...I've taken real price information that was collected from our database. As far as I know those prices are from the sales of used instruments. Yes, you can find 4004's cheaper than their average price of $1925. But you can also find 4003S's for less than their average price of $1684.

I can vouch for that. I was fortunate enough to get my 4003s for a winning bid of $1350.00 last April. So, the occasional deal is out there but there just aren't that many 4003s around.
I think all of the ideas about modding a 4004 are cool and the different finishes are nice but going back to my original point, I think there would be enough of a demand to warrant adding a new, improved 4003s to the line up. It seems to me like an efficient way to add a "new" offering without affecting RIC's attempt to fill orders and keep the back log down.
Now, when they were producing the v63 or c64, I could see how the s model could be seen as somewhat redundant or directly competing with those models. I'd just like to see the s join it's rightful place back in the line up and then when possible RIC could venture into the re-issue or vintage series as the market and/or production capacity can support those additions.
It's nice to see my post about a 4003s daydream kicked off such a spirited discussion!

[aceonbass]

It seems just about every time I'm looking at a Rick bass in the databass that the prices posted there for the model are off by quite a bit. $1925.00 is higher than the going price for a new one, and I know 'cause I bought one. I was told I could have a Cii for only about $125.00 more, and this was a dealer we're all familiar with, so it wasn't a one time shady kind a deal. Anyway, I like S models and I like 5-strings and I like curly maple and I like transglo finishes and I like the standard vintage look that 4003's have, so I do what I do to have the bass I want without hoping RIC will make it sometime after the 500+ day backlog is caught up. Not that I have a problem with the way RIC does their thing, I just want what I want now, and I want it to be a Rick.

[weemac]

I like S models and I like 5-strings

So do I... I like S/5s but there is not too many of them things around either!

Eden.

[TheFountainHead]

John...Leak away...deepthroat

My 4004/2 v57 coming soon.......

This is absolutely GORGEOUS! Surprised no one commented.

Are you doing the work yourself?

[coolhandjjl]

This is absolutely GORGEOUS! Surprised no one commented.

Are you doing the work yourself?

Nope. This is one of Dane's projects. A while ago I posted some shots of my 4004 I was planing to mod. To me, a stock 4004's 'look' is a bit to contemporary for me, seems too bare, like it needs something. I was struggling with some of my own designs that I was posting, and he suggested the v57 treatment.

[gearhed289]

I watch ebay constantly. 4003S basses do come up here and there. The going rate seems to be about $1800. I bought my '89 in 2000 for $625. The finish had seen better days, but other than that, WHAT A BASS! And it's true, no love for the 4004. I'm amazed at how much bass you can get for so little. Some real beauties. I just have no use for one. It'll never be a 4003S, but I suppose pickups, a pickguard, treble pickup bezel, and old-style bridge will get you close.

[rickaddict]

It'll never be a 4003S, but I suppose pickups, a pickguard, treble pickup bezel, and old-style bridge will get you close.

And that's the point I was trying to make. Suppose a good used 4004 can be had for $1300, and a good used 4003S can be had for $1600.

How much time, effort, PIA, and money are you willing to spend to try to make that 4004 into a 4003S? Not only will you never be able to turn it into a 4003S, but for all of your efforts and money, you will have created a bass that is actually worth less than the 4004 that you originally bought for $1300.

I'll take the 4003S.

[rickaddict]

I really like the 4004/2 v57 by the way.

[aceonbass]

I really like the 4004/2 v57 by the way.

Thanks Jeff!

It's not that I want a 4003S, I'd just buy one. It's that I want something RIC has really never made exactly the way I want it. In my case, I wanted the 5-string RIC has never made, so I started with new 4004L and Cii basses. If I were a 4-string guy, I'd want a new 4004 with the narrower 4003 neck modded the way I did mine, which don't look exactly like S models, and because RIC doesn't make those basses either. Although it takes some effort, it's not a PIA to do 'cause I like doing this sort of a thing as a hobby and side job.

[rickaddict]

I really like the 4004/2 v57 by the way.

Thanks Jeff!

It's not that I want a 4003S, I'd just buy one. It's that I want something RIC has really never made exactly the way I want it. In my case, I wanted the 5-string RIC has never made, so I started with new 4004L and Cii basses. If I were a 4-string guy, I'd want a new 4004 with the narrower 4003 neck modded the way I did mine, which don't look exactly like S models, and because RIC doesn't make those basses either. Although it takes some effort, it's not a PIA to do 'cause I like doing this sort of a thing as a hobby and side job.

Well that's something different...You're making something that doesn't already exist (and making them very well, I might add). I've seen (and played some of) your creations and they are unique and well done.

I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense (to me anyway) to make a 4003S (4 string) out of a 4004 (4 string) when both can be had used for probably within about $300 of each other.

[rickaddict]

I like the pickup placement on the 4004/2 v57. I'd be very interested to hear it.

And something else occurred to me when looking at it (that probably already occurred to you as well): With all that real estate on the pick guard, you could make one long pickup route and have different pick guards with alternate pickup locations. I have no idea how deep the routes would have to be for HB1's, and if the neck/body strength would be compromised too much, but it looks like an interesting possibility.

[coolhandjjl]

I like the pickup placement on the 4004/2 v57. I'd be very interested to hear it.

And something else occurred to me when looking at it (that probably already occurred to you as well): With all that real estate on the pick guard, you could make one long pickup route and have different pick guards with alternate pickup locations. I have no idea how deep the routes would have to be for HB1's, and if the neck/body strength would be compromised too much, but it looks like an interesting possibility.

I've seem some very contemporary basses with sliding pups. My issue is called 'paralysis by choice', meaning too many choices means I get stuck and do nothing.

I have three Ric's to cover anything.
-'09 MG 4003, I did the RWRP mod to the bridge pup. I have DR Lo-Rider nickle rounds on 'er. This is my go-to bass right now.
-'93 FG 4003s, outfitted with humbuckers and LaBella DTB flats. This is my, well, 'flats' sounding bass.
-'04 FG 4004, pups in the 4002 position, v57 guard. Sadowsky Blue nickle rounds on it right now. Who know, it may become my new go-to bass. It will be an great adventure trying out new tones with it.

[aceonbass]

And something else occurred to me when looking at it (that probably already occurred to you as well): With all that real estate on the pick guard, you could make one long pickup route and have different pick guards with alternate pickup locations. I have no idea how deep the routes would have to be for HB1's, and if the neck/body strength would be compromised too much, but it looks like an interesting possibility.

Yes, I thought about this too. Since the pickups have to protrude all the way through the guard, this couldn't be done like the Gibson Grabber was done. Different pickguards could be made with different pickup locations though. With the new 4003 neck, the pickups would sit lower in the body and make it possible to have them mounted to a sliding plexi plate. The plate would have to sit on the same plane as the guard though since RIC pickups aren't very tall. To keep the pickups and their mounts from falling out the front of the bass you could have rectangular clear acrylic rods (similar to the setup that holds the bridge cover/mute assembly on the '57-'61 4000) screwed to the top overlapping the sliding plate. Hmmm...but that would leave openings at either end of the plate. Lots to think about, but the idea has a lot of potential. I wish RIC pickups were taller. It would make this idea easier to work out.

[aceonbass]

I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense (to me anyway) to make a 4003S (4 string) out of a 4004 (4 string) when both can be had used for probably within about $300 of each other.

I agree. If you want a 4003S because you don't have one or you collect them, then find one. If you find the binding on 4003s uncomfortable and like a dot neck, AND maybe can't afford a C64 or V63, and want a new RIC bass with curly maple, a two piece neck and humbuckers, then I think a 4004 is the place to start.