610 Truss Rod Question

[sdbanotts]

Hi,

I seem to have a problem with one of the truss rods in the Rick 610 I have just bought second hand and wondered if anyone might have some advice on how to get to the bottom of the problem.

Which is this.

The truss rod on the treble side won't loosen anymore, in order to give me more relief, without the nut falling off the end of it.

I have checked the neck with a stewmac straight edge and it appears to be perfectly flat on the treble side. I want to get a tiny, tiny bit of relief though, as when I fret the high E string on the 4th fret it seems to fret out and doesn't ring true.

Lefty loosey righty tighty is the way I am adjusting the rods.

As I said, if I try to add more relief to the treble truss rod, the nut will just come off. I can tighten it the other way (clockwise), but in my understanding this will just straighten the neck more won't it?

The bass side seems fine, so wondered what might be wrong with the truss rod on the treble side.

Also at the ends of the truss rod at the headstock end, the bass truss rod has plenty of thread showing at the end, whereas the treble side has no thread showing past the adjusting nut.

I am using the correct ric truss rod tool to make these adjustments.

Here's a link to a pic

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/j44 ... 610086.jpg

Thanks
Scott

[marcinkus]

Try to loosen the bass side trussrod, it should give the correct amount of relief you need also on the treble side.

[sdbanotts]

Ok Marcello, thanks I will try that and report back in 24 hours.

[Wiker]

Don’t know about getting more relief, but from your photo I see another potential problem. The spacer plate seems to have sunken into the wood more on one side than the other, so that it doesn’t sit straight and parallel with the nut. The rod ends are forced at an angel through the hole in the spacer, which may lead to stripped threads. Also that the edge of the hole eats into the rod, stopping the rod from sliding freely through the hole, and by that make adjustment impossible.

I had this problem on my bass, and just recently fixed it. On this bass a previous owner had snapped off rod ends, because when tightening the nuts the rod wouldn’t move through the hole, and more tightening eventually lead to the rod snapped.

Many ways to fix this. In this thread you might get some ideas.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=398702
My way of fixing this was to remove wood (used a Dremel) to level it out in parallel with the nut, and then glued in a properly shaped little plate of thin plywood to fill up the space. In the above thread another guy filled up with epoxy to fix it.

Don’t know if fixing this will give you more relief though, but you never know, and properly functioning truss rods is a good thing anyway.

[sdbanotts]

Hi Gier,

Yep you are spot on. The spacer plate does sit at a weird angle to the nut, and I was wondering that myself if is should actually be parallel to the nut.

Quite clearly it isn't, as the left hand side of the plate seems to have moved forward, meaning the plate is now no longer straight. I guess this is why the treble side has less thread on the rod.

In that case this is a more serious problem than I first thought.

Thanks for the link. I will have a look and see what I can do.

[Wiker]

Yes, a bit more serious, but not that hard to fix. The simplest method I guess is to fill it up to level with epoxy, as seen in a photo in that thread. Implanting plywood is more work, but I liked the idea of fixing it with wood, so.. (I'll take a photo when I get my camera back) You may also want/need to replace the truss rods if the threads are damaged. Or maybe it’s enough to run a threading die over the old threads to straighten them out.

[jingle_jangle]

Plywood or metal is the way to go once you've leveled the slot. Don't use epoxy--it's too soft and can crack or crumble.

The RIC boutique lists the newer, 16GA steel stamped spacer. This is a great way to go, and you can stack a couple or more if necessary. Part # 06119 under "Miscellaneous"

[sdbanotts]

Cheers Chaps, it sounds a wee bit over my skill level to be honest. I don't really want to go messing with removing truss rods, and such like. I will study the link in this thread and see if it might be something I can manage by myself before attempting it.

Does it actual matter if the truss rod metal plate spacer is not parallel?

The only thing I really want to do is be able to turn the treble rod counter clockwise to add a tiny bit more relief on that side, and at the moment I can't as the nut falls off if I loosen it further.

I may well take it to a good luthier in London and ask them to take a look at it.

[jingle_jangle]

Cheers Chaps, it sounds a wee bit over my skill level to be honest. I don't really want to go messing with removing truss rods, and such like. I will study the link in this thread and see if it might be something I can manage by myself before attempting it.

Does it actual matter if the truss rod metal plate spacer is not parallel?

The only thing I really want to do is be able to turn the treble rod counter clockwise to add a tiny bit more relief on that side, and at the moment I can't as the nut falls off if I loosen it further.

I may well take it to a good luthier in London and ask them to take a look at it.

Read Wiker's post again.

Re: removing truss rods. This site alone has so many tips and ideas to ease you mind, coupled with enough humor to keep a grin on your face, that removing a truss rod or two will seem more fun that clipping your toenails, and about as appealing...SEARCH (upper right, this page) is your friend.

[sdbanotts]

Ok Paul, you've convinced me. I have done a thorough read of all truss related posts that I can find via the search button, and will set about the task.

There is a fabulous amount of good advice from all of you here, and for that I'm grateful.

I will now go for a long walk, ask myself if I really think I can do it without making an almighty mess, probably have a couple of shandies, ring 10 friends and ask if they think it's a good idea, and then get on with it!!!

Will probably have to buy a tool set as well, as I don't own much in that respect. An unhandy man, I think I would call myself!!

Thanks All.Wish me luck, it could get dark!

[jingle_jangle]

This is the first day of the rest of your life. Live it as a handy person.

[Wiker]

Thanks All.Wish me luck, it could get dark!

Ok, good luck!
Don’t go have at it too fast. First thing, just remove the truss rods and have a look, and get a grip on what the problem is. Let it rest and let your mind work on it. Don’t make any hast out of it, spend several days, and do it slow and careful.
Don't know if it will be of any help, but I probably get my camera tomorrow, and can take a couple of shots if you like.

Just so that you can visualize it, here is what I did. Removed wood with a Dremel and sanding wheel, very slowly, until it was level. Then glued in plywood on top. Drilled holes in the plywood for the truss rods before gluing it in. The hardest part of the whole process was actually to line up those two holes properly.

[sdbanotts]

Hey Geir,thats great thanks for taking the time to mock up the pics. Really helpful.

I will take your advice, and lets see how it goes.

Thanks Again, it's much appreciated everyone.

[sdbanotts]

Call me a coward, but I've bottled it, and taken it to a very experienced luthier in Denmark Street in London. He will hopefully get the job done properly. Just can't risk my Edward Scissorhands causing any potential havoc to the guitar, as it's taken me an age to find a lefty 610.

However, I have been able to to file and radius the bridge to a decent standard, as well as replace the nut and level the worn frets, so I'm not totally incompetent!

Truss rods though. No!!!

Thanks for all the help, sorry I let you down.

[Wiker]

Yes, safest is to have a professional do it.

For the record:
The fixing I did with plywood was not 100% successful. I used 3mm thick, high quality, dense birch plywood, but it started to crumple a little under the pressure of the bass side rod. So, now I'll remove the ply and use rosewood or ebony instead. And probably make a larger steel spacer to distribute the pressure.