Mystery Rickenbacker's Little Brother?

[JAVRIC]

After wondering for years what my guitar is, I happened to run across the Mystery Rickenbacker Guitar from the 2006 Dallas Guitar Show topic (how did I miss it for 5 years?). Finally a guitar that looks like mine - albiet in fancier trim. Let me first say that this guitar is not for sale, I am posting this in hopes of gaining more info. I have owned this guitar since the late eighties, when my great uncle was nice enough to sell it to me. He is the original owner, and told me he purchased this guitar new, somewhere in the northwest (Idaho?). I believe it to be all original - hardware, electronics, pickups, everything down to the screws. It has an 850 style butcher block Maple? body with top carve. Two Toaster Pickups - Bridge pickup Magnet Poles protrude out the bottom, and clearance holes are drilled in the top of the body to acommodate their length. Maple/Walnut/Maple neck, Rosewood board, Dot Markers, & walnut headstock wings. 21 Frets. 2-Vol & 2-Tone Controls, 3-way Switch. 2-tier pickguard. Two-tone gray Hard Case w/ red plush. Pot codes are 137841 and 137848, which should put them in the last quarter of 1958? Astron red tone caps. "650" is hand written in pencil under the truss rod cover. Serial number is C8148 - (the Mystery Guitar's serial number is C8145 - wonder where 8146 & 47 are?).

[JAVRIC]

More pics

[JAVRIC]

and more

[egosheep]

Awesome guitar, Dale! Is there any chance you could email me the photos in a higher resolution?

I have seen a few others like this. One was C6147.

[libratune]

This looks like a Capri neck and electronics mated with a 650 Combo body and is probably a transition model. The "horseshoe" Combos were gone by 1959. The pot date codes would put this one at late 1958 / early 1959.

The body, neck and pickup combination on your guitar kind of reminds me of the prototype "longbody" 1957 Capri, from the Tatado collection.

Obviously not the same, but some neck/body/electronics similarities:

And here's another predecessor in appearance, a 850 Combo 1957:

[jps]

Welcome, Dale!

Your guitar reminds me very much of the one pictured in a photo on page 64 in the Smith book, from the 1959 NAMM show; it is hard to tell whether this is the same guitar or not. The caption in the book says walnut body, it does not look like walnut to me, but it is a small fuzzy photo.

[electrofaro]

Good to know another transitional model surviving in a good state. Welcome, Dale! Feel very proud and lucky to have such a cool item

[paologregorio]

That guitar is super cool. I would love one of those. I was actually thinking of having a 350 capped with a carved top like that, or else similarly modding a 620 or 660.

[JAVRIC]

So is it known how many of these Transitional Models were produced? And is it okay to ask about what it might be worth?

[leftybass]

Well I'll be.

What a great guitar. I'm going to look at the pics some more.

While only a couple of numbers away, the Deluxe 850 has flat-back toasters on it from what I can see, other than what looks like long-poles on the 650. The 650 has pickups with corner screws on it that are more like what you see on early 1959 Rickenbackers. Not saying it is a '59 but may be one of the first with newer changes installed in terms of p/ups and hardware.

That sure is a beauty. It is possible that one of the guitars in between this 650 and the 850 Deluxe would be the short-scale combo (like a 325) that is known as the 'Polynesian' Combo.

It is a real shame that these guitars didn't take off, they were ahead of their time and would fit today IMHO.

[paologregorio]

It is a real shame that these guitars didn't take off, they were ahead of their time and would fit today IMHO.

Yep. Rickenbacker's Les Paul type model, but better looking.

[leftybass]

With the serial number being a 'C8xxx', IMO it is a Combo 850 rather than a 650-- depsite the 650 written in the cavity.

Or, think of it as a Combo 850 merely with standard features.

[JAVRIC]

I understand late 50's serial numbers like this; The two digits in front of the C were the model i.e., 85=850, 65=650, with "C" meaning Combo. The first digit AFTER the C is the year - 8='58, 9=59, and the last 3 digits were the production number. My hunch is that they really didn't have a model name/number for these few, and just marked them without those digits. So it would still be a Combo, marked as a '58, and was the 148th guitar in that sequence. Speaking of, can anyone tell me is the producton number (the 148) a count of total guitars produced by the factory, or just the count for that series, in this case Combo?

[libratune]

I understand late 50's serial numbers like this; The two digits in front of the C were the model i.e., 85=850, 65=650, with "C" meaning Combo. The first digit AFTER the C is the year - 8='58, 9=59, and the last 3 digits were the production number. My hunch is that they really didn't have a model name/number for these few, and just marked them without those digits. So it would still be a Combo, marked as a '58

I agree -- that's what I have concluded after examining my own combos and those listed in the Register. Further, for 800, 600 and 400 combos, there is just one digit -- 8, 6 or 4 -- before the C. (For the 450 combo, there is an "A" after the production number.)

and was the 148th guitar in that sequence. Speaking of, can anyone tell me is the producton number (the 148) a count of total guitars produced by the factory, or just the count for that series, in this case Combo?

I don't think there is a certain answer to that question. My guess is that there were batches of combos made that were given a group of sequential production numbers, but that those numbers were part of the overall factory production number sequence. So, to address your question, my guess is that a "148" production number is one in a sequence of total guitars produced, not just combos.

[leftybass]

I understand late 50's serial numbers like this; The two digits in front of the C were the model i.e., 85=850, 65=650, with "C" meaning Combo. The first digit AFTER the C is the year - 8='58, 9=59, and the last 3 digits were the production number. My hunch is that they really didn't have a model name/number for these few, and just marked them without those digits. So it would still be a Combo, marked as a '58, and was the 148th guitar in that sequence. Speaking of, can anyone tell me is the producton number (the 148) a count of total guitars produced by the factory, or just the count for that series, in this case Combo?

Dale: I think the '8' in the serial number means that your guitar is an 850, for two reasons:

1.) There is proof that Richard Smith printed in his Rickenbacker book that the Deluxe Combo that you noticed pics of in the 4-year-old thread on this Forum was notated as a Combo 850 in factory records. Other than having deluxe features and a burst finish, it is essentially the same guitar as yours in construction....two p/ups, four knobs etc.....

2.) There is another guitar pictured above in this thread with serial number C6147, which is a single-pickup Combo 650, made in the same run as your guitar and the Deluxe 850. 'C' meaning Combo, '6' meaning 650, not that it was made in 1956.

All of these solid-body Combos with a 325-style body shape were made as a batch in 1958, primarily as samples for the 1958 trade shows.