Fumigant damage to Ric finish :-(

[markos]

Hi everyone;

I recently moved from the US to Denmark, and had my 1992 360/12v64 shipped by container ship (never again!). When I opened up the vintage style case the smell of fumigant was overwhelming. Apparently that's what the Customs folks do everywhere now. What was worst was that the poor guitar had been bathed in this stuff for many days, and the pattern of the guitar case lining had etched its way right into the back of the Ric's body.

These patterns are pretty deep, and I was wondering what the best way would be to go about getting rid of these lines. I have tried the Fender Mequiars Swirl and Haze Remover with a 100% cotton cloth, but it seems inadequate for the task. After 30+ minutes, and 5 applications of this stuff, I can barely see if there is any progress at all. Am I just being impatient? or is there a more gritty solution to use? I have heard a lot about Swirl-X and Zymol, etc. Don't know how easy that would be to find in Denmark. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Oh, I don't have access to any digital cameras, so my impoverished descriptions will have to do

Thanks in advance!

[clementc3]

Paul W wrote a Primer on care and cleaning here:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=255794&hilit=Primer

(Search on Primer if the link doesn't work)

Note that the currently available products are AFAIK:

3M Perfect-it II (or Perfect It 3000) Rubbing Compound (not the "extra Cut" version which is rougher); Perfect-it III has been discontinued but can still be found online, but in one gallon quantities.

Meguiar's Swirl-X, NOT the Scratch-x that's now on store shelves. An alternative is Nu- Finish Scratch Doctor

Zymol Cleaning & Polishing wax in the light blue bottle

1500 or 2000 grit sand paper

Paul also suggests a Dura-Block Sanding block which I have not been able to find at my local auto stores. Amazon sells Meguiar's Unigrit blocks (which look like the right size) in 1500 & 2000 grit but I haven't tried them.

Another key item is all-cotton (muslin) diapers or old uncolored T shirts.

[markos]

Thanks Clement!

I took a quick look at the link you sent, and it looks really comprehensive. I'll have to start looking around for some non-silicone rubbing compound then. It's possible I'll have to order it online though, but that's better than nothing, no?

Keep getting the feeling that this Meguiars Swirl and Haze Remover isn't quite rough enough for what I need to do. Maybe one of those sanding blocks could speed things up a little too. Time to get moving on this.

-Thanks again, Mark.

[chrisdski]

Check these out also, with the polishing compounds noted in the description. I used these on a Reranch nitro refinish project, and they worked great.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_s ... g_Pad.html

[markos]

Thanks Chris;

That would be nice; way faster than by hand....but I don't have any power tools. If I could find a sanding block over here I think I could be okay as long as I try to follow Paul's instructions.

Mequiars, surprisingly enough, has a big distributor here in Denmark; but they don't have the Unigrit sanding block. They do have the Swirl-X though, so that's a pretty good start. Maybe I could try a building supply store for the 1500 and 2000 grit paper and the block. They have tons of building supply stores here, but very few auto supply stores.

-Mark.

[clementc3]

The Dura-Block sanding blocks that Paul W recommends are long and skinny - something like 3/4" x 1-1/2" x 12", and he recommends cutting them into short (1" long) sections so that you can sand small areas at a time. Paul Yan, another forumite in Beijing, couldn't find the sanding blocks so he ingeniously (and, I think, a little painfully) used a Chapstick cap on the end of his finger) - check out viewtopic.php?f=14&t=391023 for a great story.

A key concern is having a flat backing behind the sandpaper; since you may be working on the entire front or back you might be able to use a larger sanding block which is more easily found, but I hope Paul W is checking these forums (fora?) and he can chime in.

[markos]

Thanks Clement!

I'll see what I can find, but it isn't easy finding Danish equivalents to the products Paul uses. Perfect-It III is available for $80 + shipping for a liter, and I can get the Swirl-X, but Zymol does not appear to be available at all here, and shipping from the UK is kind of expensive. That's all I've been able to find after 3+ hours of searching.

I don't really need a whole liter of Perfect-It, so if I could find alternatives to that and the Zymol I'd probably be fine. I've been reduced to finding msds's in order to find out the ingredients

-Mark.

[8mileshigher]

Gosh, very sorry to hear about this fumigant disaster and I hope you are able to find the products and get your Ric cleaned up and looking good again.

[markos]

Thanks 8!

Yeah, it's a bit of a mess; but at least the front wasn't damaged, only the back, and a little bit on the sides. Still...a terrible thing to happen to such a beautiful guitar.

Been reading and researching some more, and perhaps instead of the Perfect-It, I could use Dupont no.7 white polishing compound, or TurtleWax T-241a. I am sure I can fairly easily and cheaply get the TurtleWax here in Denmark.

As for alternatives to Zymol, that'll have to wait 'cause I'm gettin' sleepy. Bed time for Bonzo here!

-Mark.

[markos]

Hi everybody;

Just thought I'd throw out an idea to see what you all think of this plan:

1. Sand out the etching on the back of the Ric with 1500, and then 2000 grit sandpaper, using a cork block;
2. Use TurtleWax t-241 Rubbing Compound with a piece of diaper;
3. Then rub with Fender/Meguiars Swirl and Haze Remover;
4. Then use the Fender/Meguiars Guitar Polish to bring out the shine.

Reason for this plan is that I already have the Fender 3-bottle kit right here, while the other products Paul uses are hard to get a hold of. Isn't "Swirl and Haze Remover" = Swirl-X?

-Thanks, Mark.

[jingle_jangle]

I don't know if the Fender product is the same as Swirl-X.

The important thing is to stay with the proper grits, working from the coarser grit (polishing compound or Perfect-It III), to the finest (Zymol), which is a water-based wax and the only one I'm aware of here in North America. Zymol is a Swiss company, so I would think that you can Google their distributor for Denmark.

Be very careful if you have to wet sand, especially on corners and edges! Under no circumstances use any sandpaper of a lower number than 1000 grit. 2000 is a better bet and polishes out beautifully.

Power tools? Not unless you're accustomed to this. Too easy to spoil a very pricey paint job...

[markos]

Thanks Paul!

I'm going to go out on an expedition today to find the super-fine sandpaper; so far I've found up to 1200, but hope to get the 2000. Might have to order that online though.

About the Zymol, it's really bizarre that when I go to the European site for it I can only find this particular type of wax from the British resellers, not the German, Norwegian, etc. ones (they sell other varieties of Zymol waxes). Denmark isn't listed at all, and when I Google for Danish references I get nothing. This sort of thing happens a lot when you live in a tiny market like Denmark! I mean, there are more people living in the San Francisco Bay Area than all of Denmark!

Thanks for the sanding tips too! I'm lucky that most of the problems are not near the edges; but some are, and they are right next to the bindings. Not sure yet how I'll manage that with the sanding block. Extra, extra care along the edges. And power tools are a real no-no for me because I not only don't have any, but I'm not used to them; better to keep it slow and safe.

-Mark.

[grazioso]

- for fine grit sandpaper & zymol try car care product stores or stores for those people who do small models of airplanes etc... that has been my own experience here in eu..., yet another approach is to strip the guitar of all the parts, wet sand the spots flat with 2000 and take it on a buffer wheel at someones' shop. i am afraid that what you are describing is deeper than the clear coat though.

i am that they would use something *that* invasive in denmark for fumigation of the container. that is not normal...you should check what it was and make sure it didn't creep into other things you are touching expecially if you have kids around.

[markos]

Thanks Dusan! And by the way, nice Futurama guitar you've got there

Yeah, I spent a lot of time visiting car parts stores, building supply stores, paint stores, and hobby stores trying to find these things, but there wasn't any Zymol or super fine sandpaper. I ended up ordering TurtleWax white paste Polishing Compound and the 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper online from Danish suppliers. I decided to focus more on the general technique, as Paul had suggested, than the specific products, and that did the trick. The most important thing to avoid is silicone-containing products. Thanks Paul!

On Saturday I went ahead and completed the job as planned, and it worked Yippee! You'd never know there had ever been a problem! Took several hours of wet-sanding, and then another six hours for the rest of the polishing down. Luckily, the etching had not gone all the way through the CV. It was deep, but not quite that deep.

As for the use of this fumigant, yeah, that has concerned me too. It took forever to get rid of the horrible smell from the guitar case (not to mention my other belongings). I used tons of sodium bicarbonate to suck up the smell, but it took several months to get rid of that smell. My 2005 Gretsch was not damaged at all, probably because it has the poly-finish.

I suspect that a big factor in the fumigant damage was that the case was closed for several weeks after application of the fumigant while it was at Customs or in some warehouse, and this may have given it time to react with the lining of the case. They used the same fumigant on my airline luggage when I arrived at Copenhagen airport (same exact smell), but the difference was that my luggage didn't sit unopened for a long period...and yet, it still took a very long time to air out my suitcase. This stuff should be banned. Luckily, I don't have kids to worry about. It's just my health that's at stake

Anyway, Ric looks fabulous now, even better than when I bought it from the guy in the Mission District in Frisco!

-Mark.

[johnallg]

Congrats and kudos Marc. Now enjoy it!