12 saddle vs 6 saddle?

bvstudios · Post by **bvstudios** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:45 pm

I started this question on the other Forum and when all the discussion was distilled down, there was no real consencus, so let's see what I can learn from you fine folks here... (I know some of you can be found in both places, but I am still interested in learning things)

When I ordered my 370/12 I also ordered the 12-saddle bridge from the boutique at the same time, and Rickenbacker was kind enough to ship both in the case. I've been playing it with the stock, 6-saddle bridge since new, but was told several times that the 12-saddle version is the "only way" to get proper intonation. While this kinda makes sense, it's also been said that the slight de-tune inherent in having 2 different guage strings pass over the same saddle is a big contributor to the Ric's unique sound (and I do love the sound right now). Confusingly, a pic posted elsewhere here of Roger's 370/12 at Wolf Trap seems to show he's using a 6-saddle (and thank you Roger for leaving the bridge cover off so we could check it out).

Hence my quandry.

Chime in here, please, fellow 12stringers... Which is your preference? 6-saddle or 12? Or do you even have a preference? (As an aside, my digital tuner shows a difference between the paired G's of approx 2.5 cents at the 12th frets. Not much. Audible to my ears only when played seperately, in fact.) I'm still using the facorty-shipped strings, but when the guitar comes up due for new ones, it will be decision day.

After that, I may have a bridge to sell

jimk · Post by **jimk** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:23 pm

My 360/12 string will be 2 years old next week. It has the stock 6 saddle bridge. I just checked it with a digital tuner, and it's right on the money open, and at the 12th fret. Call me lucky, perhaps. I would never even consider swapping out the 6 saddle bridge for a 12 saddle. Also, I take great pains to follow RIC's recommended string gauges. Currently, I'm using Curt Mangan strings from Pick Of The Ricks (POTR). If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
JimK

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:42 am

My C63 never had an intonation problem using TI strings on the stock compensated 6 saddle bridge. I don't see the point in changing but since you already purchased the 12 saddle bridge why not try it? You can always switch back it you find it is not for you.

Folkie · Post by **Folkie** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:21 pm

Both my 1991 330/12 and my 2010 360/12 have the stock 6-saddle bridges. I've noticed some slight intonation problems on the G-pair of the 330, but nothing really bothersome. When I bought the 360, the dealer advised against installing a 12-saddle bridge. Instead, he suggested I try a set of TI Flats. As an experiment, I tried the TI's, and I've noticed no intonation problems on the 360.

One thing to consider if you might want to install the 12-saddle bridge is that it creates many more moving parts which can potentially cause mechanical noise. It should only be installed by a qualified tech.

There are many threads here on the bridge issue. I seem to remember that Todd Bradshaw had some really good insights on the strengths of the 12-saddle. But he had his installed by an expert.

For the time being at least, I'm with JimK: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Robert

billydlight · Post by **billydlight** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:21 am

My 74 330/12 21 fretter has a 6 saddle and TI Flats and the intonation is spot on

That being said my 66 330/12 has 12 saddle and it sounds great

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:05 am

There are probably as many different views on this, as there are 12-string owners ...

I remember reading up on lots of threads, (both here on the RRF and on the company Forum), on this subject and then I decided to get the 12-saddle. Two of my 12-strings have 12-saddle Bridges - but there are many folks who love the traditional 6-saddle style. After all, a lot of things about our Rickenbackers are based upon traditions.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:08 am

If you're loving the sound and are having no real intonation problems, why mess with it? As long as you use the Ric branded strings, TI flats or the Curt Mangan strings from Pick of the Ricks, you shouldn't have any issues. Now, if you think that you'll be doing a lot of experimenting with different types and gauges of strings, a 12 saddle bridge just might come in handy. As for myself, I've always used the Ric branded strings, which intonate just fine on my 6 saddle bridge, and have no plans to change.

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:17 pm

I've used TI Flats and Curt Mangan on my 360/12V64 with its stock 6-saddle bridge...everything sounds/sounded all right to me.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:59 pm

There are tons and tons of debate on this subject on the Rickenbacker factory forum. Mr. JH prefers the 6-saddle for the extra mass helping tone & sustain.

The only niggle I ever found with my 6-saddle bridge was the unison low E/octave E intonation. I solved that by ordering a blank saddle, filing it with an offset so the unison E intonates off the back edge of the saddle and the octave E intonates off the front edge of the saddle. Perfect.

laplacian · Post by **laplacian** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:58 pm

iipopes - genius.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:11 pm

Thanks, but not really. On older 12-strings, due to the characteristics of the Maxima strings, the D saddle from the factory was offset the other way. I have my original D saddle as offset, safely stored away. All I did was make one like it, but with the offset the other way, for the E string instead.

If you're careful about the gauges of the octave strings so that the diameter of the octave string approaches the core of the wound string, the G, D and A saddles should line up so the only offset saddle needed is the low E, and this whole discussion should be moot.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:01 pm

My C63 came with offset saddles. I did get it used but I don't believe it was modded.

drumbob · Post by **drumbob** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:52 pm

Part of the charm of the Rick 12 is the quirkiness of the intonation. Think of all the great records made with Rick 12s and 6-saddle bridges. There are ways to compensate for the intonation issue on the lower E strings.

That said, I may install a 12-saddle at some point.

sleepingtiger · Post by **sleepingtiger** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:11 pm

I have no issues with the 6 saddle in my 370/12VP

Tony

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:41 pm

sleepingtiger wrote:I have no issues with the 6 saddle in my 370/12VP
Tony

A lot does depend on getting the proper strings. For example, on another guitar I have, when I use rounds, the low E string pulls sharp at the 2nd & 3rd frets rather badly. When I use flats, it doesn't.

Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum