3rd Guitar Part on "Mr. Tambourine Man"

[mcd220]

John wrote:

"What astonished me listening close up is that when Larry Knechtel's bass drops to the low A immediately before the voices come in it sounds like a giant Danny Alexander through my speakers. I'll never be able to hear it the same way again."

Ever notice how Chris Hillman did completely away with that low A note, while just riding the D instead at the Big TNT show during the MTM intro & outro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWlth2csLNw

In addition, he pretty much comes up with his own Bass line for the song by that point in time (Late 1965).

Now, listening again to the Journals set, on take 8 (I know I've mentioned this before, but no replies) of MTM, there are CLEARLY TWO SEPARATE six string guitars *Noodling* while Hal is doing the intro countdown with his drumsticks.

So, I'm seeing a possible of several scenarios here...

Number One:

Leon Russell is actually playing the 3rd guitar part, and it's being mistaken for the keys? Leon did do guitar sessions, I found out fairly recently.

Number Two:

It's a "Phantom" studio cat who came in at the last minute, and Terry suggested the rythym guitar be double tracked like the Basses???

Number Three:

Leon originally played guitar, but abandoned this (Or maybe ping-ponged it down to another track), and put the keys on sometime after take 22, when the Journals end???

So, did this 3rd guitar part make it on the record, and what is it playing???

Doubling Jerry Cole's "Chinka-Chinka" part, or maybe playing like a low "Root & 5th Metal" type phrasing that is kind of doubling or underscoring the Basses???

This I can tell you for sure, on like take 1 or 2 of MTM, somebody asks, "Do you want Leon in or out on the fade".

Terry replies, "He's out....he knows where to come in".

Does this mean keys, especially considering that the Jerry Cole guitar part was never part of the "Fade"???

As recently mentioned, Gene's beautiful "I Knew I'd Want You" is another matter entirely; those "Low rumbling trills" on the Fender Rhodes, next to the Rick & vocals, is the most dominant sound on the record, and pretty much carries the whole song.

Listening right this minute to IKIWY without vocals...sounds like there is an acoustic guitar in there too underneath everything else.

GREAT thread...I'd love to hear more on this, and hopefully arrive at a conclusion, and put it to bed.

Best, Christian

"The Byrds Video Depot"
http://www.youtube.com/mcd220

[jimk]

I can't comment much on this topic. The only recording I have of MTM is on the box set "There Is A Season." Not to derail the thread, but are the Journal recordings you mention widely available e.g. on Amazon.com?
JimK

[janglebox]

I can't comment much on this topic. The only recording I have of MTM is on the box set "There Is A Season." Not to derail the thread, but are the Journal recordings you mention widely available e.g. on Amazon.com?
JimK

No. The Byrds Journals is a fairly widely-circulated bootleg. It's an exhaustive 9-CD box set housed in a gold colored embossed metal container(!) with scores of takes from songs on the first two albums, MTM and TTT. There are also 26 takes of the song "Fifth Dimension". Not all the songs on the first two albums are included, but there are rarities such as 20 takes of "Baby Blue" and 15 takes of "Stranger in a Strange Land". Between takes you hear the playback with instructions and suggestions from producer Terry Melcher, as well as comments from the Byrds themselves. Many of the takes don't last more than a minute.

It's a fascinating peek into the Byrds recording process. Altogether there is close to eight hours of recorded material. Depending on your mood (and stamina) when listening, The Byrds Journals can make for an endlessly entertaining or incredibly boring listening experience. Volume 9 is kind of an edited compilation of the first eight discs.

[jimk]

I see. And how or where does one acquire a copy of the Journals?
JimK

[janglebox]

I see. And how or where does one acquire a copy of the Journals?
JimK

I searched for years, to be honest — Ebay, the old alt.music.byrds Usenet newsgroup, various bootleg websites, etc.

[janglebox]

Here's some of the "5D" session off The Byrds Journals on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfYeWdBg ... re=related

One thing I forgot to mention which is readily apparent on the above clip is that the Journals are almost all backing instrumental tracks. Only a couple of vocals and no lead guitar overdubs that I can recall.

[JM82]

according to the wrecking crew contract, there were 3 guitars on the recording - Rogers 12 string and 2 other guitars;
http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/mcguinn/mtm.html

I'm not familiar with the Journals but listening to the released master, I'd say that the 12 string rick and choppy part are panned to one side of the mix and the electric piano and 3rd guitar part is panned to the other, it sounds like power chords on the bass strings and blends in with the electric piano (also the bass is panned slightly to the same side so it all blends together making it hard to distinguish the different parts at times).