A classic bass versus a modern masterpiece.

[cassius987]

Here's a tale about why I love my Rics:

My Ric 4003FL is my main bass that I gig with my band, Midnight Suns. As some of you know, all I own these days are four Ric basses and an Epiphone acoustic (I'm also the warden of my dad's copycat Hofner). As many of you also know, many people on various bass forums will suggest that if you don't own at least one Fender, you're nuts. If you don't own a 5-string, you're a dinosaur. If you don't mod your Rics to improve them you're a fanboy sycophant. Etc. I tell myself all the time I try to be as objective as I can, and I don't just own Rics because they're pretty. But I have an insecure side and eventually all of this chatter gets to me. I'll go try some Fender or Fender-based designs and/or some 5-strings at local stores. Usually I find that many are good but none make me want to replace a Ric, which I would have to do, as my wife has said no more basses.

That changed the other day when I tried a Dingwall Combustion, which is a multi-scale 5-string. After a few minutes playing it I decided to take it home, because it seemed well-crafted and the B sounded better than most B strings. The multi-scale effect on the sound is subtle but it seems to help each string speak a little more independently of the others in a mix. Definitely a cool feature of the Dingwall basses and I really respect Sheldon Dingwall for his hard work on all of them. However, at rehearsal, the bass just didn't sound right. That honey-sweet warmth was gone, replaced by a very clean modern sound with long decay but only moderate sustain. I missed the "vintage-sounding" quick decay/long sustain in the notes like I would get on my Ric. The B string did sound pretty good but I honestly felt it was an afterthought. I barely made use of it and when I did I would go back to just the EADG strings and like what I did up there better, even though it was the same notes. After a few songs I was curious what the other two guys would say so I said, "Wow, this bass sounds pretty good--kind of throaty." Jeff, the guitarist, said "It's 60% what the Ric is." Darren, the drummer, said "Don't sell your [4003FL]." Alright--I wasn't crazy. They missed the Ric too. "Should I go look for another fiver?" "No, bring back your Ric!" Jeff said. They didn't even care that I had a B string now, even the drummer, who was initially excited to see I had one that night. They just wanted the old tone back. Next rehearsal, I brought back the 4003FL, and it was a great homecoming. I have never been able to get that feeling with anything else. Maybe it's just what works for me, but now I know for sure that I'm not just pretending it works.

Maybe I am paranoid but online chatter always gets me worried that I'm just into my Rics for shallow reasons. People on the internet are really good at making you feel bad sometimes. But my 4003FL, which is close to dead-stock at this point in time, soundly beat a very well-made Dingwall Combustion in a head-to-head, not just by my vote but also by the votes of two outsiders who have no reason to prefer Rickenbackers. Maybe I'm not so deluded as people would have me believe.

[jimk]

I like to read stories like this one. You know your own music. You know what works. Do it that way. Those others? Bah....just opinions.
JimK

[coolingitdown]

I think the only reason I would ever own a Fender would be if I started doing session work, and only out of consideration for the engineer. Fenders make engineers happy because they are familiar with them. I'm told walking in with anything else makes an engineer nervous. Despite they're ubiquity, I don't hate Fender. I just never thought they were all they were cracked up to be. Carvins are better for the money, and Rickenbackers are just better instruments, action- and tone-wise.

To back up your experience, Joshua, I'll tell a brief story.

My bandmates were all RIC skeptics. I think the singer still has some moral objection to the way the company is run, for whatever reason. He used to work in the industry (some kind of higher-up at Fernandes). I'm trying not to put words in his mouth, but he seems to think that RIC underpays their people and that the company in general is just "weird" the way they conduct themselves. Anyway, back on point...the band had only ever had bassists using active bassists. Before I got my Rick, I actually borrowed the guitarist's active Jazz bass because I didn't own an active bass (well, other than my fretless 6-string which just wasn't working out for this band).

So I bring in my 4003 strung with La Bella flatwounds (flatwounds also being unprecedented in the band) and proceed to win the band over to it. I even mentioned wanting to tinker with pickup height, only to be dissuaded by the singer on the grounds that the bass already sounded great! He backpedaled a bit by saying that my tone wasn't what he would have envisioned for the band, but that the bass in fact sounded good and that I shouldn't change a thing. I'm going to put Circle K rounds on it soon, which I'm sure my bandmates will see as an improvement, but that's all I'm going to change.

Anyway, enough mad ramblings. Cool story, Joshua. Makes me feel better about being a Rick fanatic also.

[cassius987]

I think the only reason I would ever own a Fender would be if I started doing session work, and only out of consideration for the engineer. Fenders make engineers happy because they are familiar with them. I'm told walking in with anything else makes an engineer nervous. Despite they're ubiquity, I don't hate Fender. I just never thought they were all they were cracked up to be. Carvins are better for the money, and Rickenbackers are just better instruments, action- and tone-wise.

I would be glad to own a solid Precision, as I love a good one, but I'm not about to sell a Ric to make room for one. It just bothers me that some folks think you have to have that sound. The only time that may be valid is what you have cited, when a client requests one. It's kind of like wearing a tie to work even though you may not want to. Conversely I do feel that Rics cover a lot of P Bass territory already, although many would refuse to accept that.

[coolingitdown]

I would be glad to own a solid Precision, as I love a good one, but I'm not about to sell a Ric to make room for one. It just bothers me that some folks think you have to have that sound. The only time that may be valid is what you have cited, when a client requests one.

If money was no object, I'd love to add a P-bass and/or a Jazz bass to my arsenal. I'd probably want something a little left field, though. I like the idea of the Sting signiture P-bass (really just a '51 reissue, as far as I know), though I've never played one.

Like you, I would never sell a Rick to buy a Fender either, not under any circumstance. In fact, I don't think I'd sell a Rick to buy ANY other brand of bass.

It's kind of like wearing a tie to work even though you may not want to.

Very well said. Sad that it has to be that way.

Conversely I do feel that Rics cover a lot of P Bass territory already, although many would refuse to accept that.

Mostly Fender advocates. I remember the guitarist in my first band (who only played Fender guitars) insisting that Fenders were very versatile while Ricks only had one sound, and he would not be persuaded otherwise. Those sentiments just do not give Ricks enough credit.

[antipodean]

If a new MIUSA P-bass is too expensive, this may fit the bill.....

[teb]

Who plays the bass in your band......you? ....or some guys on the internet? If you spend your life worrying about what other people on the internet (at least half of whom are certifiable squirrels, present company excepted) think or say, you will be miserable. It's your music, play it on whatever you think it sounds best on. If somebody doesn't like it, they can start their own band and play whatever they want.

I've noticed on some of the non-guitar or music forums that I frequent that people are often very passionate and incredibly opinionated about their tastes in music, despite the fact that most of them aren't musicians, arent even musically inclined and very likely don't even have the ear to know what they're talking about. Somebody will post a question like "name the ten best guitar players of the past 50 years" and some of the answers will absolutely blow you away and leave you wondering what they were smoking - yet they're delivered as if God himself handed down the official list. I generally stay out of those discussions. You aren't likely to change anyone's mind and they aren't likely to change your mind, so it mostly becomes a waste of time. When it comes to musical tastes and what sounds good or bad, conducting a public poll on the internet usually isn't a good way to find your answers.

Yes, recording engineers will be pleased as punch if you walk in with a Fender bass. It means that they probably won't have to do much work and there is even a decent chance that the controls on that track are already pre-set, left over from the last session. The thing to remember, even in a big-time studio, is that you don't work for the engineer, the engineer works for you. The same thing is true for producers. These folks are there to help you generate the best version of your sound that can be generated - not to change it so that it sounds like everybody elses' sound. One thing that may help you if you're using a different instrument is to avoid running straight into the board. Use your amp and have them mic it. Set it and simply say "This is what it is supposed to sound like. All you have to do is accurately record that sound." As long as it has a decent amount of punch and crispness, there should be plenty for them to work with in the mix.

I've never played a gig or recorded anything using a Fender bass. Never owned one. I have nothing against them, but always felt that the basses that I do own and play have a more unique and interesting sound that fits better with our music and helps make it our own. There is bound to be somebody out there who doesn't like that, but I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. They're free to go start their own band and do better - if they can.

[cassius987]

Who plays the bass in your band......you? ....or some guys on the internet? If you spend your life worrying about what other people on the internet (at least half of whom are certifiable squirrels, present company excepted) think or say, you will be miserable. It's your music, play it on whatever you think it sounds best on. If somebody doesn't like it, they can start their own band and play whatever they want.

Yeah, and I get that. But over time all these similar comments make me wonder if I'm just fooling myself. I have to test these theories every so often--so I did, and luckily, came out the winner.

[Lefty4003S8]

"It's YOUR bass......play it the way YOU want!!!!!!"
(J. G. Wentworth)

[paul_yan]

Yes, recording engineers will be pleased as punch if you walk in with a Fender bass. It means that they probably won't have to do much work and there is even a decent chance that the controls on that track are already pre-set, left over from the last session. The thing to remember, even in a big-time studio, is that you don't work for the engineer, the engineer works for you. The same thing is true for producers. These folks are there to help you generate the best version of your sound that can be generated - not to change it so that it sounds like everybody elses' sound. One thing that may help you if you're using a different instrument is to avoid running straight into the board. Use your amp and have them mic it. Set it and simply say "This is what it is supposed to sound like. All you have to do is accurately record that sound." As long as it has a decent amount of punch and crispness, there should be plenty for them to work with in the mix.

I've never played a gig or recorded anything using a Fender bass. Never owned one. I have nothing against them, but always felt that the basses that I do own and play have a more unique and interesting sound that fits better with our music and helps make it our own. There is bound to be somebody out there who doesn't like that, but I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. They're free to go start their own band and do better - if they can.

100% right on, Todd!

My main job has been a recording engineer/producer for a little over 20 years, and I've actually been excited and happy, even before I really fell in love with Rick instruments, everytime the bass player brings in a bass that's not a Jazz or Precision type from Fender, Squire, Sadowsky, Atlier-Z, Lakland, or any other boutique bass that's just a more expensive copy of a Fender, which just looks and sounds plain boring to me. Players who have their own special sonic characters are always welcome by me. I don't ever feel I have to work any harder to record a good sound if the bass player is not playing a Fender type bass. Adjusting the controls on the amps and carefully positioning the mics to get a bass sound that works for the song is my job anyway.

Joshua, trust yourself and don't let go of your Rickenbackers!

[cassius987]

I think I'm pretty much there. This feels like the final nail in the coffin of the internal dialogue (yes, dialogue). I started out dredging online for info at a forum that was so hateful towards Rickenbackers I think it started me off on a bad foot about wondering if I was, I don't know, the Great Satan for playing them or something. It just happened to be right after my first purchase of one that I got interested in forums outside of the RIC corporate one. Seriously, I have never seen that kind of hate paralleled anywhere else. And yet there were some really good people there.

[Lefty4003S8]

It has been my experience that when it comes to Rickenbackers.......people either love 'em, or they hate 'em.
The 4001 is my favorite bass of ALL time!!!!

AND.....while I am not a guitar player....I prefer the sound of a Rickenbacker guitar--especially a 12--over any other make/model. THAT is how much of a Rickenbacker freak I am

Lefty4003s8





Do Not Drink From The Toilet When Taking Lyrica

[geddeeee]

When I auditioned for my current band 2 years ago, I took my Rick along. These guys were all used to Precisions and other 'standard' basses.
They said that my Rick tone has really made the band 'come alive'. 2 years on, and that is still the case!!!

[jps]

I think I'm pretty much there. This feels like the final nail in the coffin of the internal dialogue (yes, dialogue). I started out dredging online for info at a forum that was so hateful towards Rickenbackers I think it started me off on a bad foot about wondering if I was, I don't know, the Great Satan for playing them or something. It just happened to be right after my first purchase of one that I got interested in forums outside of the RIC corporate one. Seriously, I have never seen that kind of hate paralleled anywhere else. And yet there were some really good people there.

It's pretty amazing at the place where they talk about bass!

[rickenbrother]

I don't think I'd sell a Rick to buy ANY other brand of bass.

+1
I would never sell one of my Rick bass guitars for another brand.