Volume and tone pots way out of spec

[sunsetjunk]

Hey Everyone
I have a 2002 4003 that compared to my other 4003 basses is somewhat dull and lifeless when plugged in.It's totally alive and responsive acoustically.Thats why I bought it. I figured I'd get around to checking out the electronics issue later.
It has 12.3k hi gains in it which are pretty hot. 4003 basses form this period were still using 250k tone and volume pots. I'm not sure when RIc switched from 250k volume and 500k tone.But my bass falls into that period when Ric used 250k for volume and tone. Then Ric switched to 330k pots all around and the push pull vintage tone pot on the treble pickup( whick is actulally 500k, around 2006 I think.
Anyways, my point is if you have a bass from the period when the 250k pots were used all around and are having issues with lack of clarity or lack of brightness, muddiness or a little lower output than what you would expect from a modern 4003 you should check the pot values. My pots checked out to all be between 180k and 190k.Way under spec even for pots with a +/- 20% tolerance.
I ordered a bunch of Bourns pots so I could measure them and pick the ones that were right at or close to 250k and 500k. I replaced the the original tone pot value with a 500k instead of the 250k. So the bass now has 250k volume pots and 500k tone pots like the 4001 basses.
Since the pickups are would so hot I figured that the 500k tone pots would be a much better match, they were.
This has made such an amazing difference in tone and clarity that I had to post and give a heads up.It's not subtle, it's really an night and day difference. I would suggest to anyone thinking about spending the cash on different pickups to check to see what value thier pots actually are. And if you have these really hot hi gains to consider swapping out the tone pots to 500k if it doesn't have them already.Even if you are going to go ahead and swap pickups you should check to see if your tone pots are in spec while you're in there.

[cassius987]

Thanks for the heads-up Frank. I think Dane Wilder also reported >20% tolerance on some CTS pots in his Rics.

With these relatively hot Hi-Gains I think the 330K all-around circuit is the best compromise (although due to tolerance it is more like 250K all-around, but actually 250K and not lower). I can absolutely see why your bass sounded dull and maybe that's why my 2004 did before I (quickly) sold it. If the pots were around 180K they would have loaded down to 90K! Combine that with high impedance pickups and you're going to lose tons of treble and even some high mids perhaps.

I once made a wiring harness for my 4003FL intended to reduce impedance loading in the harness as much as possible... I ended up restoring the stock harness because it sounded way too bright and clangy. Just last night I was getting some really great compliments on my sound with my 4003FL, which at this time uses a stock 330K harness and pickups and is only modded for RWRP and a 7-screw tailpiece.

[coolhandjjl]

My 1993 4003s had 250K pots all the way around with measured values from 180~198K.

I've been immersed in researching wiring methods lately. I've read a couple posts elsewhere that suggest trying a 500K vol pot with a 250K tone pot.

One thing that has worked well was my changing the vol pot to a linear taper pot. Not so touchy anymore, much more controllable. My 2009 4003 when stock, all you had to do was turn one of the vol pots just a tad, and you could hear that pup drop out. Now, I can feather in just the right mix.

It is a pain that the bridge tone, with its push/pull, is a 500K pot, those have been metering at 510K~566K. I ended up swamping it with a 470K resistor from Rad Shack, that brought it down to 254K, and it matches well with a newly purchased 250K audio taper pot in the neck tone position.

[coolhandjjl]

....... is only modded for RWRP and a 7-screw tailpiece.

Joshua, I would've bet you would have been the first to try string trough, going right over the inside edge of the tailpiece immediately above where the strings usually thread through, with some ferrules on the backside. No???

[cassius987]

Joshua, I would've bet you would have been the first to try string trough, going right over the inside edge of the tailpiece immediately above where the strings usually thread through, with some ferrules on the backside. No???

Nah, my strings have plenty of break angle and sound awesome as it is. That's the only thing ST helps with, it doesn't add sustain or anything--unless you have bad break angle over the saddle which can be fixed a bunch of easier ways. Or does the wink mean you were kidding? Sorry, I'm not too good at reading emoticons as pathetic as that sounds. I never know if they are conveying contempt or humor!

[coolhandjjl]

Joshua, I would've bet you would have been the first to try string trough, going right over the inside edge of the tailpiece immediately above where the strings usually thread through, with some ferrules on the backside. No???

Nah, my strings have plenty of break angle and sound awesome as it is. That's the only thing ST helps with, it doesn't add sustain or anything--unless you have bad break angle over the saddle which can be fixed a bunch of easier ways. Or does the wink mean you were kidding? Sorry, I'm not too good at reading emoticons as pathetic as that sounds. I never know if they are conveying contempt or humor!

Kidding.

But it's good to know about string through's purpose and limitations. But it would keep the tailpiece bottom from lifting up if one could live with the 4 big holes bored into the backside

[cassius987]

I thought you were just joking, although like I said, I am a complete emoti-tard. Text and little smiley faces can only give you so much information I guess.

You know I actually went with the 7-screw TP primarily because I think it looks really cool! I had a tiny bit of lift but I don't think it was causing any issues (yet) when I bought an older tailpiece and installed the extra screws. The bass is very thick-sounding but I think it was that way before the TP change.

[clankchris]

I put 750K as Volume, and a 1Meg Tone pot on my Bridge pup - yeah, strange that I used two values.

Since I use 100%, full-on Bridge, and only 25% Neck(vol and tone are at 25% or so) should I bother with changing the pots there? I guess I only use the neck pickup as a subtle "bass freq enhancer"
- I find the bridge pup on Rics can be utilized LOT better than a J bass' b/c they are more in a "P" position, than a Jazz bridge pup(60's or 70's) and they tend to sound less nasal b/c of that reason.

And yes, I like lots of metallic grind, if you hadn't guessed