Variances in 320/325 Scale Lengths

[mrsparkle]

I could swear I've seen this topic already addressed in the forum, but no amount of searching will yield the answer. I have both a 1981 model 320, and a 325JL made in 1990. They each measure exactly 10.5" from the nut to the 12th fret, implying a 21" scale length (and yes, I'm measuring from the right place - it's a scale-length measurement....no need to exaggerate any length measurements on this forum ). I know that most mentions of Rick's "3/4 scale" guitars reference a 20.75" scale length, but that clearly doesn't seem to be the case with my two examples.

I've also read that you can put the 4th fret of a standard 24.75" scale Rick side-by-side with the 1st fret of the short-scale guitars and all the frets will line up. Well, I'm a guitar builder/restorer in addition to a collector, and I have several 24.75" scale Ricks plus quite a few very accurately slotted 24.75" scale fretboard blanks lying around, and I'm here to testify that this does not hold true with my two short-scalers.

Have there been variances in the short-scale length over the years to include both 20.75" and 21" measurements or am I missing something that should be obvious? Btw, the bridges on both guitars are centered at around 21.1875" (21-3/16th).

[iiipopes]

You, sir, are correct. My @1981 320 is also 21 inch scale length, while the "reissues" of the "vintage" models are "nominally" 20.75. I noticed the difference in that the bridge is down almost that 1/4 inch, and this gives more of a gap on the 1981 320 between the bridge pickup and the bridge than it does on the other models. I solved the problem by routing out a sliver of wood in the pickup cutouts and moving the pickups.

And now for something completely different: instead of using as set of 12's tuned conventionally, go get singles in 9, 11 1/2, 17w, 22w, 30w, 40w, and tune the guitar up 4 frets to G#-D#-B-F#-C#-G#. It makes a great chimey "Terz" guitar that has a unique tone and can really give some shimmer to the mix in the right song. Because you're still using a wound 3rd string, you don't have to reintonate the bridge, and because the lighter strings are tuned to higher pitch, they have about the same tension, so you don't have to tweak your truss rods.

[doctorwho]

Thanks for the info, Scott, that's good to know.

[iiipopes]

I also forgot to add that the lower bout of the mid '70's through mid '80's 320's is about an inch wider than on the others.

[mrsparkle]

Well at least I'm happy to learn that I'm not suffering from a brain cell anomaly (or should I say yet another brain cell anomaly). It does leave me in a bit of a quandary, though, with regard to some work I"m doing on my '81. The guitar is in need of not only new frets, but there is significant wear on the fretboard itself, right through the finish and into the wood. If I find that I can't sand out the wear marks without taking the board down too far, I was going to replace the whole board with a new one. I'm refinishing the guitar anyway, so why not do it up right.

So what do I do, fellow Forumites - put on a "correct" 20.75" scale board, of which I have plenty using my supply of 24.75" scale, 24-fret blanks, or make a 21" board (yuck!)? I might add that just for the heck of it I'm partially "Lennonizing" this guitar by installing a Bigsby B5 and gold plastic...maybe even the oven knobs. Having the right scale length would be a nice touch, IMHO.

[iiipopes]

Because the guitar has the 1" or so wider lower bout, it will never be a "spitting image" JL guitar. Unless you want to move the bridge and pickups, I'd put a new board on it like the old one. If you're not sure if you can have the frets done correctly, there are java aplets out there that can do the fret positions for you, or do what I did for my custom scaled guitars: I got my old TI-30 out from high school, took the scale length and the common divisor 2^1/12, and figured out the placement for the frets on my own. Then I rewired it with a push-pull on the 5th knob so that all the knobs do their stock functions, but with the push-pull down I have the bridge pickup with the .0047 inline cap and the neck pickup (think 330), and with the push-pull up selector switch down is bridge pickup with no inline cap, up is middle pickup, and mid on the selector switch is bridge & mid. I never cared for the stock mid & neck together on the up position of the selector switch.

[mrsparkle]

The fret positioning is relatively easy with regard to the math involved (don't need no stinkin' java applet to calculate the 12th root of two, not to mention Stew-Mac having a wonderful calculator right on their website). And as an added bonus, I have access to a small CNC machine that could make the initial fret slot cuts quite accurately. The final cuts would need to be done by hand, but that isn't hard work, just tedious. But still it bugs me that I have all these nice bubinga 24.75" scale fretboard blanks lying around (slotted for 24 frets) that should work for both standard and short-scale Ricks, and I'm stuck with the oddball 21" scale guitar.

I appreciate your input, iiipopes, but I'm not yet convinced that a scale-length change/correction wouldn't be less work than retaining the guitar's original oddball 21" scale. I think I'll sleep on it for a month or two. The one thing I always have on my side with this "hobby" of mine is time. I'm not saving lives, just messing with geeetars.

jh

[iiipopes]

I have access to a small CNC machine that could make the initial fret slot cuts quite accurately.

Cool. I wish I had access to one. I'd do my own fanned fret instruments instead of having to have them custom done: square nut as conventional, with the high e string @ 20.75 and the low E @21.25, with the pickups and bridge rotated to match the fanning. I have a custom guitar with 24.625/24.875 scale that is incredibly comfortable, and a custom bass that is G 33.25 E 34, agian, with a conventional nut so I can use standard strings. Yes, it's just guitars, but there is so much untapped potential in conventional guitars. Next would be to take a helix neck, like Little Guitarworks or Don Lace's short lived model, and combine that with fanning to have the ultimate ergonomic guitar/bass.

[s11141827]

Yeah the scale length is 20.75 inches so it's "Terz" in Sizing. W/ really light strings it sounds great tuned G, C, F, Bb, D, G (like a Guitar w/ a Capo on the 3rd Fret) so it could make a great Jangling sounding Terz Guitar.

[s11141827]

You, sir, are correct. My @1981 320 is also 21 inch scale length, while the "reissues" of the "vintage" models are "nominally" 20.75. I noticed the difference in that the bridge is down almost that 1/4 inch, and this gives more of a gap on the 1981 320 between the bridge pickup and the bridge than it does on the other models. I solved the problem by routing out a sliver of wood in the pickup cutouts and moving the pickups.

And now for something completely different: instead of using as set of 12's tuned conventionally, go get singles in 9, 11 1/2, 17w, 22w, 30w, 40w, (or you can use a set of 9s or thinner) and tune the guitar up 3 frets to G-D-Bb-F-C-G. It makes a great chimey "Terz" guitar that has a unique tone and can really give some shimmer to the mix in the right song. Because you're still using a wound 3rd string, you don't have to reintonate the bridge, and because the lighter strings are tuned to higher pitch, they have about the same tension, so you don't have to tweak your truss rods.

Yes it's "Terz" in Sizing so it lends itself well as a "Terz Guitar".