Wishin' You Were Here (C. Jones) - remix

[beatbyrd]

Hi, I saw an original song posted in this forum recently, written by RRF member Chapman Jones. I really liked the song, but 'heard' it a bit differently in my head. I contacted Chapman and he graciously agreed to let me play producer with his song. He sent his original tracks to me and basically said "Have at it". I made a few tweaks here & there and posted what ended up turning into a collaboration on my website. Here's the link to the song: http://www.beatbyrd.com/team_projects

I really admire Chapman for his generousity and confidence. When you provide all of your raw tracks to someone, you are letting it all out there for public view; the good, the bad, and the ugly. I don't think I could do it. Chapman's tracks, by the way, were all good - no bad or ugly. See if the song doesn't make you want to grab your Stetson and strut on out to the dance floor. Great song, Chapman, and thanks for letting me work on it. Tom

[jimk]

Man Tom, you're good.
JimK

[lcjones]

Tom,

WOW!!!!! Is all I can say. Man, I really like this production. Super, super sweet! I love it. Thanks a ton for bringing all the goodness to this song.

Chap

[beatbyrd]

Jim, Thanks for the compliment, but the diamond was provided by Chapman. I just tweaked the setting (if you want to get all poetic about it). I really like the way that his guitar tracks compliment one another. I wish I had written the song.

And Chapman, I'm glad you like my version. Please keep writing more of them like this one. Thanks for trusting me with your tracks and being so co-operative and patient. It was a pleasure working on this with you.

Another RRF'er and I are currently talking about collaborating on a cover song. I'm curious to see what happens with that. Tom

[Folkie]

Chapman and Tom,

What a wonderful collaboration! The final product is very professional, and, I might add, very moving.

Tom, can you refresh my memory as to what recording equipment you use? Is it a hard disk recorder or computer software? Do you record direct?

Also, with regard to the Byrds stuff on your website, do you use flatwound strings and is your guitar run through a Janglebox?

Sorry to deluge you with questions. Once again, I'm very impressed with your work. I'd like to do something similar (a program of originals and Byrds songs with plenty of 12-string), but I can't imagine it will come out as well as yours.

Robert

[beatbyrd]

Chapman and Tom,

What a wonderful collaboration! The final product is very professional, and, I might add, very moving.

Tom, can you refresh my memory as to what recording equipment you use? Is it a hard disk recorder or computer software? Do you record direct?

Also, with regard to the Byrds stuff on your website, do you use flatwound strings and is your guitar run through a Janglebox?

Sorry to deluge you with questions. Once again, I'm very impressed with your work. I'd like to do something similar (a program of originals and Byrds songs with plenty of 12-string), but I can't imagine it will come out as well as yours.

Robert

Hi Robert,
I'm glad that you like Chapman's song. I do, too. I still listen to it all of the time.

I use a Tascam 2488, 24 track hard disk recorder. I just picked up a second one at MF. My first one has so many hours on it, it needs a bit of refurbishing by the local TEAC service center. Some of the buttons and the jog wheel need replacing. I didn't want any downtime, so I picked up a second one ($549.00!!) as a backup. And... once both units are healthy, I can chain them together.

Everything goes through an early 90's Tascam 16 X 4 X 2 mixer. Vocals go through a cheap tube preamp before the mixer. My Ricks are only a couple of years old and are stock - Higain pickups and Rick strings. I use a JangleBox 2 on all Byrds songs.

Just like playing an instrument, the more recording experience you rack up, the better your recordings will start sounding. I still have a ton of stuff to learn, but I hear a big improvement since my first ones done in 2009. It took about 15 or 20 songs before the lightbulb started coming on. Just jump in and start cranking the songs out the best way you know how. With the amazing technology that's currently available (and affordable), it's not hard to produce something that sounds decent in a short period of time. Thanks for the compliment. It's too bad that you can't make it to SCARF this year. Tom

[Folkie]

Tom,

Five years ago I recorded a CD of Byrds and early R.E.M. songs with my Yamaha AW16G Professional Audio Workstation. At the time, I miked my amp with a Shure SM57 dynamic mic, and I used cheap condenser mics for the acoustic guitars and vocals. I also used a Boss DR-660 Dr. Rhythm for the drum parts, although these only amounted to click tracks. I didn't like the guitar sounds I was getting (much too bass-heavy, regardless of where I placed the mic) and my voice just couldn't carry the melodies, no matter how many times I overdubbed the vocals to try to smooth out the impurities.

I'd like to do an updated version of that project, with a few new songs, with the electric 12-string recorded direct from my Janglebox JB2 (or direct from my amp's preamp) and with someone else doing the bass parts and the vocals. I'd also like to make all of the drum parts more interesting. I've found a bassist and vocalist here on the RRF who live pretty close to me, and who seem interested in the project, but first I'll have to revisit the manual to my recorder and figure out how to do more complex patterns on the drum machine. When you record, do you do the drums and bass first? How do you know where to insert the fills on the drums if the drum track is done first? Will I need to get a mixer to match the professional sound of your recordings?

These days there are so many recording options. My nephew is conversant with GarageBand, and he's only twelve years old! I'm wondering if computer software might make things easier. I'd be grateful for any thoughts or suggestions you have about this. You really have set the mark for home recording. (And, no, I won't make it to SCARF, but I look forward to hearing all the recollections and seeing all the photos!)

Robert

[beatbyrd]

Tom,

These days there are so many recording options. My nephew is conversant with GarageBand, and he's only twelve years old! I'm wondering if computer software might make things easier. I'd be grateful for any thoughts or suggestions you have about this. You really have set the mark for home recording. Robert

Hi again Robert,
Your post and questions would require a long essay to answer. I'll try and keep this as brief as possible. I think that the SM57 is a great vocal and (sometimes) drum mike. It's got a large proximity bass boost, which is why live vocalists use it so often. You can also use it to hammer nails (kids, don't try this at home). I'd use a flatter mike for recording a guitar amp or go direct. Perhaps an opinion/some lessons from a voice coach would confirm your suspicions about your voice.
I started out playing drums for a couple of years. Between that experience and trying to create a tight rhythm section (as a bass player), I sort of 'understand' how drummers play. That's what I try and do on my recordings, one drum at a time.

Most songs are just a collection of individual parts. The parts are just a collection of events over a period of time. Since it's linear, you can show the events on a time line (sheet music notation, tab, chart). If you have a group of people, you can record a scratch version of your song first, then go back and redo it a track at a time to perfect each part (and isolate it in the mix later), syncing each track to the scratch track. The scratch track is usually discarded in the final mix. If you are recording all the parts yourself, it helps to have the parts planned out and either memorized or written down.

I might do tracks in the following order: click track, bass drum, snare drum, hihat, bass guitar, guitar, scratch lead vocal, piano, cymbals, toms, strings, other percussion. At this point, you have the scratch version that you'd have with a full band. Actually, it's better, because each part is isolated and can be tweaked individually. The really tedious work starts now. Using punch-ins/edits, you go back and pinpoint anything that needs improvement and selectively re-record each note/beat/measure that needs fixing. Adding drum fills is done here. After all of that, you have really good music and a scratch vocal. So, you redo the lead vocal, maybe double track it, and record the harmony vocal parts. Do a scratch mix and see what it needs. Go back and make any adjustments and mix it again. Repeat ? times.

There are no real rules. The way I listed above might work well for you. Maybe, there's a way that would be better for your needs. Try to envision a finished product and thinking backwards to deconstruct it, then record and 'assemble' the various pieces required. Listen to music that you enjoy and 'take it apart', piece by piece, like that proverbial kid with the alarm clock did. You don't need a mixer or this recorder or that reverb unit to get decent recordings. Try different things out, read product reviews, talk to people doing similar projects, etc. Hang out with your nephew and learn together.
Thanks again for the kind words. I haven't set any bars. I have learned a couple of magic tricks to disguise some of my limitations. My main philosophy is: "If you give them decent vocal harmonies, they won't listen to the instruments as much". This response is completely 'your mileage may vary'. I hope you can get something useful from it. Tom

[Folkie]

Tom,

Thanks so much for the informative responses to my questions. As far as my singing goes, I have gotten some feedback from friends, and the consensus seems to be that the vocals aren't up to snuff. I got to the point where I was doing three or four vocal overdubs to try to hide my limitations. I agree with your philosophy that the vocal harmonies are the most important part, so my first project will be finding someone who can do those harmonies well (I've had two offers, one of them from someone on the RRF, but I won't know if either one is satisfactory until we start rehearsing).

I got many compliments about the guitar parts on my last project, but I just couldn't nail the tone I wanted with a mic on my amp. (Also, five years ago I hadn't found the right compressor and was using the onboard one on my multi-effects unit.) I've heard that the Janglebox JB2 is excellent for direct recording, so that will be my first plan. I very much appreciate all the technical advice you've given (some of it a little over my head). I'll try the order of tracks as you specified. It sounds like you really know your stuff.

I was told by a few people that my last project sounded "professional," but, in my opinion, the final result wasn't even close to yours. As for GarageBand, I don't have a Mac, so I'd have to use one of the copycat software programs. And my nephew lives in Boston, so I won't be able to work with him.

Your answers to my questions were very helpful. I may fire you a PM or two, once I start recording, to ask you for more advice.

I hope you have a wonderful time at SCARF!

Robert