Sex Pistols

[Kopfjaeger]

Being a huge Pistols fan in my youth, I was very dejected that I could not go see them on the reunion tour back in 1996. I was in the academy and there was no way I was getting a pass out for that. The closest I came to seeing the pistols was Public Image, twice. It's not the same.

Sepp

[08 Ric 4003]

Love the Pistols or hate the Pistols you have to admit music was different before and after their one and only real album. They are in in The R N R Hall of Fame or Shame depending on how you look at it. Madonna, The Bee Gees and ABBA are in there too. Are they R N R, no not really. Punk was about a t t i t u d e and r e b e l l i o n and being ****** off at your situation and lashing back at it with primal music. The Pistols NMTBHTSP is considered a classic. Sid was a junkie with little too no talent except the ability to aggravate and **** people off and he was good at that, Rotten was the mouth of the band and good at that. Glen played a Ric and was sacked. I think there reunion tour was more about making a dollar off there name that paying homage to their music. How long could the concert last they had one real record out? I like the Pistols album it is raw and punk (not like what we call punk today such as bands like Green Day) and has a classic simple album cover. Yes they are probably more legend than talent, but they were some of the first punks, along with The Clash and The Ramones.

[marc61]

Sid Vicious was the Justin Bieber of punk rock. A look and nothing more. Glen Matlock was actually a decent bassist.

imho, the Ramones changed music because they were a band most people wouldn't call virtuosos but they could move an audience with their sound. Not sure the Sex Pistols ever really did that. They were more of a passing fad then anything else.

Not sure if either band was the first punk band, and if we did discuss that We'd have to bring up the Stooges, MC5 and others who definitely preceded them.

Just for the record, Johnny Ramone said that Communication Breakdown was the inspiration for his strumming technique. Is it then the first punk song? Wow that's a whole 'nother debate, as I think there's a few who songs that might qualify there

[iamthebassman]

The Pistols were the biggest joke ever in the music industry. Little kids trying to act tough and coming off like the wimps they were. A bunch of plug uglies Who probably never played more then 20 gigs and everyone is hailing them as the next messiahs. What is their legacy one lousy LP. What do they have to do with Rics aside from the fact the 1st bassist played a Ric bass. Guys like Lennon and McGuinn showed the world how great Rics could sound when real talent played them. The Pistols, don't make me laugh, Cheers

"don't make me laugh"

Ironically, this post did just that! LOL

[08 Ric 4003]

I didn't say they were the the first punks, I said they were some of the first punks. You hate them that is fine. MC5 I would consider Proto-Punk, and may be The Stooges too. Iggy and the Stooges or just The Stooges were an influential band but also just a bunch of drugged up messes. How they held it together for even three or so album is a mystery. They both have some great songs and they both left there mark. Sid was a pretty ugly guy and not sweet and lovable like the Bieb and his smooth hairdo. I think both the Pistols and the Ramones inspired people to say "Hey if those those bunch of ugly dudes can bash out three chords I can too!"

[whojamfan]

As far as Rickenbacker Basses go, I really think the bright cap did more to discourage new players than it did to win them over. So many bassists of rock and punk have complained about the lack of bottom end and such being the reason they STOPPED playing Rickenbackers. Unfortunately, simple selector switch and control knob settings could really have opened these babies up for business, but somehow, a number of these folks just opted to change their Bass rather than dialing it in. This is just my opinion, not a slag on the instruments(as I personally LOVE them) but simply an observation based on numerous things I have read. I am in no way saying that Rickenbacker instruments are not suitable for heavier styles of music.

The Ramones changed the approach and sound of their music, where as the Pistols rehashed New York Dolls material. The Ramones constantly toured and influenced bands to PLAY all over the world. The Pistols were mainly manufactured by their manager(ex-New York Dolls manager)and turned them into a giant consumer product , who rarely played, and did more to inspire people to LOOK like them, rather than play.

Saying the Ramones were middle class and not real punks, or whatever, is ridiculous. One could easily argue that they were indeed the first "punk" band, as that style had never existed before, and inspired people to do it themselves. The Ramones were true to the SPIRIT of the music they grew up listening to. The Ramones were all about bringing the under 3 minute rock and roll song back in a heavily sonic way, when 7 minute guitar solos and endless virtuoso noodling dominated the airwaves. Every album had a cover of some 60s song that they made their own, and they actually sang songs about the stuff they did, or were into. Also, they weren't standing on the "soapbox of the week" like so many-(especially Bristish)-punk bands did who never would have been bands had they not seen the Ramones. All that talk of Anarchy, social oppression, and economic hardships, looked smart on album covers, but so much of it went without any action to back it up, that they just became characatures. So much for the supposed "poor lower class street cred".

Johnny Ramone taking a backpack full of rocks and throwing them at the Beatles while they played at Shea Stadium far outweighs Sid Vicious vomiting at Heathrow in front of the press. Actually having jobs instead of living on the Dole, yeah, those trndy middle classers

The Pistols, however, still remain one of my favs, along with the Clash(let's really talk middle class there people)and it's because of the music. There is real heart in their music that cannot be manufactured, and Steve Jones is still one of my favorite guitar players. The spirit and heart of punk has never died, and those of you who have actually seen anything other than the pop sensation groups, you know what I mean. Bands like Blink 182 have about as much to do with punk as Donny Osmond had to do with hard rock, so let's not get caught in how credible any of the "flavors of the week" are.

Economic status is no statement of credibility or musicianship. I have many dirt poor angry punk rock musician friends that can't hold it together long enough to get through a set, much less the resposibility of being in a group. How many of your much revered musicians came from good homes and money? Who really gives a dog doodle rock on!

[marc61]

I didn't say they were the the first punks, I said they were some of the first punks. You hate them that is fine. MC5 I would consider Proto-Punk, and may be The Stooges too. Iggy and the Stooges or just The Stooges were an influential band but also just a bunch of drugged up messes. How they held it together for even three or so album is a mystery. They both have some great songs and they both left there mark. Sid was a pretty ugly guy and not sweet and lovable like the Bieb and his smooth hairdo. I think both the Pistols and the Ramones inspired people to say "Hey if those those bunch of ugly dudes can bash out three chords I can too!"

Guess I will agree to disagree on some points.

First punk band will always be debatable(as will first rock, metal etc). Yes The Sex Pistols were one of the first wave of punk (I believe the Damned were considered to have released the first full punk length album in the UK). As far as influence on the punk MUSIC part, I just feel their influence is vastly overrated. The Ramones were definitely THE band that made many people take up music, and I believe it was based on your statement above.My comparison of Bieber to Sid was to point out that both are really just an image, not musical talents(especially Sid...not at all).

Interestingly enough, and what I was alluding to in my last post, some folk consider The Who to be the first punk band, or at least some of their songs the first punk music.

[whojamfan]

Too punk for rock, and too rock for punk, the Dictators still rule in my top ten(no pun intended) :lol

They were absolutely one of the best live bands I have ever seen, and Ross is still the boss as far as I'm concerned!

[whojamfan]

I heard a report on the news that this thread was just spotted over Iceland-sorry for the derail

[08 Ric 4003]

Did Bjork read it while wearing that crazy goose dress?

[marc61]

Too punk for rock, and too rock for punk, the Dictators still rule in my top ten(no pun intended) :lol

They were absolutely one of the best live bands I have ever seen, and Ross is still the boss as far as I'm concerned!

Mike, can you believe....I know Andy and Scott for over 30 years and I've never seen them in concert? There's much more to that story for a later date.

What did Steve Van Zandt say about them? They're the link between the NY Dolls and the Ramones

[antipodean]

imho, the Ramones changed music because they were a band most people wouldn't call virtuosos but they could move an audience with their sound. Not sure the Sex Pistols ever really did that. They were more of a passing fad then anything else.

I think there is a trans-Atlantic translation issue when it comes to punk. UK punk was aggressively iconoclastic and political. Early US punk was alienated and introspective. Two different reactions to the economic and social stagnation of the period. Punk to a Brit will always evoke an overt anti-establishment stance and snarl that just wasn't present across the water.

The Pistols were manufactured but John Lydon's delivery and presence in his Johny Rotten persona remain unmatched as a template for channelling rage. I love the Ramones to bits, but they don't give me that visceral kick that "Pretty Vacant", "Anarchy in the UK" and "God Save the Queen" can. The social similarities between the UK and Oz back in the '70s may well account for that....

[johnnysain]

"John Lydon's delivery and presence in his Johny Rotten persona remain unmatched as a template for channelling rage. I love the Ramones to bits, but they don't give me that visceral kick that "Pretty Vacant", "Anarchy in the UK" and "God Save the Queen" can."
Agreed.

To me, growing up in the NYC area,...the Ramones were a fun 'party' band, although unique. The Pistols were a sociopolitical Time Bomb that went off once and left a big mark.

No band, I can think of, ever had as much of a compelling impact on disillusioned/disenfranchised inner-city youth on the strength of a single album. And Lydon's vocals were powerful (more fitting to the 'punk' spirit) whereas Joey Ramone's were comparatively bland (although adequate for the Ramones sound).

[08 Ric 4003]

Check out "The Filth And The Fury" doc about the Pistols. Really good. Also "End Of The Century" is a great Ramones doc. I started watching "Raw", but it was terrible. It was all over the place. "Westway To The World" is a great Clash doc. I only got to see the Clash live when they supported The Who on The Who's first of many Farewell Tours in '82. Tried to see the Ramones, but something happened, cancelled to something. It was one of their last few tours.

[8mileshigher]

Snowman, thanks for your interesting insights and explanations about the "history" of Punk Rock music and influences of The Ramones, The Clash, etc. etc. Good stuff !