Which model should I choose?

[Ommadawn]

Hello!

I finally registered after months of reading RRF because I am now officially looking for a Rickenbacker bass As you guess, I'm asking for your help because if I read a lot about them, I still don't know which model should I choose. I hope I'm writing in the right subforum by the way.

My love for Rickenbacker basses comes from Chris Squire, like many people, but also from Geddy Lee and 70's progressive rock in general where Rickenbacker basses are very "common" to find them.
I'm playing and recording some kind of prog rock (not technically speaking though) but I don't play live if it has any importance. I really want to add the Rickenbacker vibe to my next album

The fact is I'm still a bit lost amongst the models. Vintage 4001, 4003 or 4001 V63? It seems that 4003 and V63 are a bit cheaper than the 70's 4001 but I'm ready to pay for a vintage one if it's really the one I need. I'm searching for this authentic vintage vibe. On a visual side, I love Autumnglo, Walnut and Mapleglo colors, and the cream Chris Squire color of course!
I didn't see a lot of Rickenbacker here in Paris but 4003 are more common. There's some vintage 4001 but at unreal prices.

Could you help me to find which model would be the best for me?

Thank you very much and sorry for the awkward english which is not my native language

[coolhandjjl]

It may be difficult buying vintage unless you know exactly what to look for. But you can learn much here. Neck thickness varies between years, some thin, some chunky. Some had a one piece neck, some had a three piece neck with a thin darker piece of wood laminated in the middle known as the 'skunk stripe'. Although Ric basses are known for their 'neck-through' style of construction, there are a few that do not have this type of construction.

The new 4003 are really great basses. The ones manufactured after April of 2009 have a thin two piece neck, the wood stock is cut length-wise, one side rotated, then laminated together. It is very strong. Add to that, modern 4003 truss rods are very easy to adjust, much easier than 4001 rods. Some people feel the 4003 rods allow for more precise adjustments as well.

[Ommadawn]

Thanks for your anwser

I was thinking about the difficulties of buying a vintage model and that's why I begun to feel a bit lost. It seems that 4003 models are more reliable, isn't it? But will I get the authentic sound I'm looking for?

I need to read more about 4001/4003 differences, I suppose this is a very common question

Your reply sounds like it would be a safer choice to choose a 4003, isn't it?

[Kopfjaeger]

I recently purchased a brand new (2011) 4003 in jetglo and I love it to pieces! it played great right out of he box and it looks fantastic. Come on, it's Jetglo, of course it looked great!

I am now on the hunt for a "vintage bass 4001" and I'm prepared to have to do some work to it to get it back up top speed. In a vintage bass, you never know what was done to it, or how it was treated. Will it need to be refretted, re wired, has some moron used it as a pry bar, an so on.

BTW, welcome to the forum. I'm rather new here as well and I've learned so much in that short time.

Sepp

[superdick2112]

Julien, I own several 4003 and 4004 basses, as well as a 4001C64. Of these, the 4001C64 has the most "vintage vibe" & tone, but I would suggest a new 4003 as your 1st Ric bass. The new 4003 basses have superb build quality, outstanding playability, and the vintage tone selector makes it the most versatile of the Ric basses in production IMHO.

Good luck on your Ric quest, and welcome to the Forum!

[rickaddict]

New basses are generally going to be more reliable, but there are many nice old 70's 4001's out there too. If you can find a 4001 in our For Sale section here at this forum (you will need 30 posts to be able to access that section) you're probably in luck as people here tend to be very honest and any problems will usually be disclosed.

If you do go for an old 4001, I'd recommend trying it out first. There is no substitute for an in-hand inspection. If that can't be arranged, then I'd buy from someone online or on ebay who takes excellent photos. Look at the wiring to make sure everything is in order, look at the truss rod ends, look at the end of the neck near the nut for cracks, and look at the action for signs of a weak neck.

In general 4003 necks are stronger, so if you like heavier, higher-tension strings you might want to just go with a 4003.

Vive Le Tour!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCXqyrZcUWQ

[JakeK]

A new 4003 isn't a bad place to start. It has a sturdier neck and truss rods, and has a push/pull tone capacitor that gets you the sound of a vintage 4001 or a modern 4003.

[coolhandjjl]

There are many things that contributed to the vintage vibe. The three things that come to mind for me are the pickups, pots and the caps.

Original 4001 Ric bases had a 'horseshoe' style pickup in the bridge position. Named so as it has two curved magnets lapping over the pole pieces. Looked like two horseshoes from the side. Paul McCartney, Chris Squire, had that type of pickup originally on their basses. Those pickup are no longer made. Ric made a few varieties of the horseshoe pickup for the v63, the c64 etc., vintage series. Ric does occasionally make re-issue horseshoe pickups available for sale in their boutique, but the curved pieces of metal are no longer the primary magnets.

The horseshoe pickup was phased out in the late 1960's, and replaced with a more conventional pickup, referred to as the Hi-Gain. And that unique look of the horseshoe was mimicked by a metalized chrome plastic cover over the pickup assembly. Many players choose to remove that cover so they can play right over the bridge pickups' pole pieces.

The original neck pickup was referred to as a 'toaster top' because when viewed from the top, it looks like a toaster with two slots. That one was phased out in the early 1970's and replaced with a Hi-Gain pickup. Again, Ric makes re-issues of the toaster pickup, but they are a bit different than the original ones.

Modern 4003 Hi-Gain pickups offer adjustable/screw out pole pieces. A really neat feature to fine tune your sound.

Regarding potentiometers, early Ric basses had 500K tone pots making for a bright sound. Throughout their several bass generations and modifications, Ric went to 250K to the current 330K pots for all their basses now. (Most actually meter in at about 270K due to tolerances.)

And the 'cap'. On early Ric basses, the bridge pickup had a .0047 capacitor wired directly in-line. (This was in addition to the customary .047 tone caps that are present in 99% of guitars and basses). The .0047 in-line cap essentially acted as a hi-pass filter cutting out frequencies below around 200hz from the bridge pickup. But it did allow for a unique interaction between the bridge and neck pickup. However, because of that .0047 cap, many old school rockers complained that Ric's lacked bottom end. In the middle 1980's, that cap was removed from the circuit. Current 4003 basses put it back in, but via a push/pull tone pot to activate or bypass the .0047 cap for those who want the ability to approximate the vintage sound on the fly.

[Ommadawn]

Hey thank you so much for all the replies and welcomes!!

Your replies tend to make me feel that a 4003 would a very good choice. I read about the capacitor, actually I know prog bassists who removes it from their vintage 4001 so maybe the sound I'm looking for in a 4001 with this capacitor removed and then, the sound of a 4003 will be quite similar (on the "modern" position then).

Did anyone already compare a 4001 to a new 4003 and could share his feelings about the similarities in the sound?

Thank you very much again for your replies!

PS : Fun to see the Tour de France reference here

[Kopfjaeger]

Great info coolhandjjl! I know one of the members here is writing a book on the history of the Rickenbacker bass and I can't wait to purchase a copy, but a buyer guide would really be neat to have on the list. I year by year breakdown on what features and colors were offered and a bit of an evaluation by year. I realize it is quite the undertaking but that would be a huge help for those of us (me) who are interested in picking up one or two "vintage" Ric's.

Sepp

[rickenbrother]

Welcome to the forum, Julien. I you could find a 4001 in nice shape for a good deal, go for it. You would not go wrong or be dissatisfied with a new 4003. The only Rick basses I shy away from are the early 4003's (from '80 to about '85 with the two piece pickguards), but that that's just my own humble opinion.

[Ommadawn]

Thank you

It's hard to choose because it seems there is no one better than the other... But if I understand well, you can't put roundwound strings on a 4001?

[rickenbrother]

But if I understand well, you can't put roundwound strings on a 4001?

That is completely false! The secret is in setting up the 4001 properly and using a set of string whether they are flatwound or roundwound that are not too heavy.
A set of D'Addario XL-170 goes very well on a 4001!

[Ommadawn]

Ok... I read this doing some searches with Google but I found it was strange.

Article link: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/music/guitars/ ... on-23.html

Quote: "The 4001 neck was designed in 1956 for the only type of strings available then . . . flat wound . . . and since the design favored a slim neck, the neck strength was right on the edge of the envelope. Round wound strings took many of these instruments beyond their rated capability for string tension, resulting in various problems. But of course there are many types of strings, not to mention that every piece of wood is different, so plenty of 4001's have been used with round wound strings for decades with no ill effect."

[rickenbrother]

Ok... I read this doing some searches with Google but I found it was strange.

Article link: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/music/guitars/ ... on-23.html

Quote: "The 4001 neck was designed in 1956 for the only type of strings available then . . . flat wound . . . and since the design favored a slim neck, the neck strength was right on the edge of the envelope. Round wound strings took many of these instruments beyond their rated capability for string tension, resulting in various problems. But of course there are many types of strings, not to mention that every piece of wood is different, so plenty of 4001's have been used with round wound strings for decades with no ill effect."

That statement was true for that time (1956 to mid/late '70's). The 4001 was designed for use with a particular low tension flatwound. Strings have evolved a lot since then. There weren't many choices of roundwound bass strings when they were first developed. Most modern flatwound strings have more tension than roundwound strings of the same gauge. There is also much more awareness now about how to properly adjust the truss rods of a 4001 neck.