New vs. Old

[jps]

Late 50's to mid-60's guitars were works of art and must have been painstakingly created by hand.

I'm sure this isn't helping Robert's RAS any.

[beatles beatnik]

Now you all have me thinking, and what actually is the difference between the 360/12c63 and the actual George Harrison guitar, and can it how much modification would it take to make it into Suzy Arden's rickenbacker?

[collin]

Now you all have me thinking, and what actually is the difference between the 360/12c63 and the actual George Harrison guitar, and can it how much modification would it take to make it into Suzy Arden's rickenbacker?

On paper......not much, but in person, a lot.

The inlays, pickups, fireglo pattern and fretboard wood color (and I'd guess the neck thickness) would all differ from GH's guitar. The C63 is the closest approximation to what GH's guitar is, that is currently available from the factory, but there are subtle nuances that will never get it 100%


No matter what you do....no matter what mods you make....you won't be able to "make it into" Suzi Arden's Rickenbacker.....unless you gave it to Suzi Arden, right?


(note: if you meant "replicate" Arden's Ric, some gold pick guards, TRC with correct shape, and restring traditional 12-string pattern would be a good start (would need a respray to get it closer to the Arden Fireglo pattern).

[collin]

My suggestion is to go try out a 360/12c63 for yourself. If you like it, buy it. I tried one, and it wasn't for me, although the headstock and overall dimensions are about as authentic as you can get with a modern-day Rickenbacker, it still looked to me like a copy of the real thing. And I was surprised to see sap-marks in the wood on the face of the guitar. So instead I sunk my money back into my 60's Rick.

Definitely----I think the C63's are incredible guitars---easily one of the best vintage reissues out there (along with the rest of the C-series...wish we could get non-Beatle c-series reissues!!), but I always say vintage Rics ruined me. I'm no elitist or vintage snob.....but one you're hooked, newer Rics just will never feel right if you're trying to compare the two.

Ironically, I know people that have sunk thousands more into their 360c64's with mods by Mark Arnquist or Dale Fortune, trying to get closer and closer to a "correct" vintage guitar, and end up spending $5K on a reissue guitar when they would at least have the sound, feel and tone with a NS vintage 360/12 at around $4K, and would be a much better investment......oh, whoops....it wouldn't be double bound like Harrison's.

On the other hand, if you looked at a C63 as a great vintage-styled OS Ric as-is, you can't go wrong at their price today--thats a lot of guitar for $2500, IMO.

[libratune]

Yep, it's the WOOD.

I thought I'd chime in here.

My favorite Rick 12-strings for playing are a 360-12 '65 and a 1993 '64. I often play them w/out amplification -- they are so resonant it's not needed for just noodling around. In comparison, my unamplified newer Ricks sound flat. When amplified, the older Ricks give forth a depth, chime and bite that the newer ones just don't have.

I agree that there are many factors that go into making '60s Ricks special; however, the resonant quality of the wood can't be duplicated. A '60s Rick 12-string most likely wasn't bought and stored away, it was played. The frequency of playing and the natural curing and aging process of wood make the '60s Ricks (that have survived) unmatchable. You simply can't duplicate the molecular quality of the wood on a well constructed 45-year-old guitar that's been played over the years.

Of course the Capris have the same thing going on. I think the Capris are the finest 6-string Rickenbacker guitars, period.

There is probably a more "scientific" way to make these points, but I'm just an amateur in the sonic materials analysis dept.

EDIT: Also of interest on wood and aging: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=385076&p=484955

[rivets]

As for old vs new can you really pick out Johns sound on CD's or better still LPs. He didn't have a "jangly" sound and it's hard sometimes to tell what he is actually playing. Now if you talking "jangly" like the Byrds then try and find a Roger McGuinn model with the built in compressor and you'll be playing to solo to Eight Miles High for days. I've had old Rics and new Rics and you can get a "jangly" tone using a tale. Playing a Ric through a Marshall 100 watt Super Lead isn't going to get the sound your looking for. The amp you're playing through has a lot to do with the sound. Forget buying an old 325 as unless you're Bill Gates they cost a fortune IF you can ever find one. John Fogerty used a 325 with Creedence but I think his was a Rose Morris as it was fireglo and had an F hole. Personally I'm not gonna spend $6,000 for a 60's Ric 360 to play bars with. A used one will do fine. I saw Strawberry Fields a Beatle cover band and they were all using reissues and sounded awesome. And I'm sure REM don't take vintage Rics on the road as they are pretty fragile guitars and can't be played like a LP or Strat. I depends on your budget and what you are going to do with the guitar. I just picked up a 64C and you can be sure I'll never use it on stage as it will hang on my wall with my other Beatle guitars and use my JR for clubs. Buy what you like and what is in your budget and then ask yourself if you're buying to play at home or something you'll take out to play. The new 325 are much better then the ones they made in the 80's. But take into consideration that the 325 with a Bigsby will be allot easier to make like Johns because the Bigsby is already on the guitar and you won't have to take off the RIC trem to drill holes to put a Bigsby on. All you'll need is the knobs, butterfly bridge and tuning pegs. Have fun and enjoy what ever Ric you decide on. Cheers

[egosheep]

I just wanted to say that while I agree with those saying a 60's RIC is unbeatable, if you can't afford one(like me), seek out an early 80's one('84 or earlier). While a whole different beast from a 60's Ric, these share some of the cool 60's features(Small headstocks, thin necks, X-bracing, .0047 cap on the bridge pickup, deep-dished ramps) and have others that are unique to these models(thicker tops combined with X-braces).

They are a happy medium in the whole New vs Old debate, and while not very common, they can be bought for pretty reasonable prices.

[collin]

I just wanted to say that while I agree with those saying a 60's RIC is unbeatable, if you can't afford one(like me), seek out an early 80's one('84 or earlier). While a whole different beast from a 60's Ric, these share some of the cool 60's features(Small headstocks, thin necks, X-bracing, .0047 cap on the bridge pickup, deep-dished ramps) and have others that are unique to these models(thicker tops combined with X-braces).

They are a happy medium in the whole New vs Old debate, and while not very common, they can be bought for pretty reasonable prices.

I'll definitely agree there! I've seen some killer deals on '74-'84 Rics, which are overlooked by most collectors and are great players with cool vintage features.

I don't consider them "vintage" in the classic sense, but they aren't quite "modern" Rics either---plus, guitars from this era were used by some iconic players (Johnny Marr, Paul Weller, Peter Buck).

[beatles beatnik]

The question of the amp has had me thinking...I picked up a Vox VT15 used at guitar center last year, and will that be able to convey the best sound? I've only played rickenbackers plugged into a Fender Twin Reverb or no amp at all. (Another reason why I love these guitars is that they are so loud w/o amplification!)

[sys700]

I think if you do a search you'll find a lot of discussions about amp preferences. I play my 60's 12 and 6 strings through a 63 Vox AC-15 Twin, and/or a mid-60's Fender Super Reverb, with a bit of early 80's JC-120 on occasion. I usually mix a little of each of them together. The Super is the most versatile, but I get the most crunch and sparkle out of the VOX. The JC-120 fills things out a bit. I have a mid-70's Fender Twin as well, but it seems to pair up better with ES-335, Country Gent, (humbucker pickups).

As far as 70's Ricks go, I've owned a few 12-strings from the mid-70's, and didn't like the sound of them, too harsh sounding, and dead, with high action at the nut. Haven't tried a late 70's to early 80's Rick, but I've heard they are nice. What I don't particularly care for is the 24-fret neck, neck pickup location, hi-gain pickups and gumby headstocks, but that's just me.

[collin]

Rod, Ricks from late 70s/early 80s still have Klusons, so they have the smaller vintage headstock.

They're definitely a compromise with the hi gains and 24 frets, but i'd highly suggest playing one from this era if you get a chance. The cross-braced body resonates nicely like a 60s Ric.

[egosheep]

What I don't particularly care for is the 24-fret neck, neck pickup location, hi-gain pickups and gumby headstocks, but that's just me.

No gumby headstocks on early 80's Ric's!

[sys700]

Both of my 12-strings from '77 (late 70's) had Klusons and the narrow headstock, with x-bracing, but more of a volute at the nut which I didn't like. The tops were the thickest I've seen on any Rickenbacker (too thick IMO). I've not tried a Rickenbacker 6 or 12 string from between 77 and 83.

[DoctorPhil]

Big difference. I spent 25 years buying new Rics and modifying them to try to get the same sound, mojo, and playability. After literally going through nearly a dozen, I bought two 60's Rics and finally found what I was searching for for years. I will never buy another post 60's Rickenbacker guitar.

+1


Really, we could go on for ages trying to explain the differences that you would realize in about 0.0010 of a second if you picked one up in person.

Play a new one....Play an old one.....decide for yourself.

+1
I still can almost come to tears thinking about having to sell my late 60s 365 back in 1970 to pay off a debt. I own a 1991 BH 330 now but its not the same. I went to the guitar center vintage room to play a 1967 365, and it was as I remembered it. Wish I had the change to trade in the 330 plus cash for that 365.

[Ivan3000]

Old!
You can't beat origional crushed pearl inlays!