2009 Rickenbacker 360/12 Action

sacakl · Post by **sacakl** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:02 pm

Hi everyone,

New to the forum as I just picked up a Jetglo Rickenbacker 360/12. I've found a lot of information so far but thought I would ask the forum on how to lower the action on my guitar. The height at the nut is perfect but the action is raised considerably at the 10th fret and beyond. The bridge is at its lowest position as the more I turn the screws counterclockwise they become unscrewed. According to the manual and a few of the existing threads (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101426&p=101426&hil ... 12#p101426), the place I thought I'd start is by adjusting/tightening the truss rods 1/4 turn at a time -- this helped lower the action greatly after a couple of times but it's still high at the 10th fret and gets increasingly higher at the higher frets.

I took it to a local luthier and the first thing he said was that the bridge was too high and that I should lower it. However, the screws are so tall that I can't lower it any more, with the 4 nuts at the top of the bridge coming unscrewed. He said it would be $140 for a setup -- no thanks!

As a result, does this sound like a neck/truss rod issue and should I be concerned about cranking the truss rods more? Can the bridge go any lower or should I replace the bridge screws? I've read on other forums that some 360/12's "play like butter" so I'm confused as to how they have it set-up?

Thanks in advance.

HKC · Post by **HKC** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:47 pm

It certainly sounds like the trussrods need some tweaking. I have a 360/6, a 330/12 and a 620/6 and all of them have incredible action. I have many guitars, it's not all Rics, and usually Rics are very easy to set up because of the double trussrods.
Was your luthier a real luthier or just someone in a shop. I can't understand if you need to change anything that the guitar originally came with. The trusstrods need adjusting if your strings are of higher (or lower) tension than what it was set up with or if it has experienced climatic changes.
If you press the string down in the 1st fret and maybe the 15th (some say 12th) there should be just a very little slip from the fretboard in the middle the 1st to the 15th fret. If it is more than almost nothing the trussrods must be tightened. If there is none it must be loosened but in your case it sounds like there is too much.
You of course need the Ric tool and if you don't have it you may as well get it. This goes for all guitars, get the adjustment tools because the necks do move unless you live in areas that have no climatic seasons, especially when they are young.

PS when it comes to setting up action on guitars Rics are possibly the easiest to get to "play like butter" as you say so go for that.

sacakl · Post by **sacakl** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:02 pm

Thanks HKC. The luthier was from a local guitar shop who's pretty experienced but the rick is a little unconventional in its setup and is probably why their fee sheet shows $140 for a Rick 12-string set-up. The guitar came from Wisconsin over here to Sacramento, CA, so it's probably come from a more humid climate to a hot/dry one here. I'll continue working on the truss rods a 1/4 at a time until I get it to where I want it. Thanks for all your help.

Also, is it normal for the string height to increase so much from the nut to the bridge?

jps · Post by **jps** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:25 pm

Welcome, Aaron!

If you can make it over to SF or Mill Valley there is someone who is somewhat familiar with Ricks that can help you.

Post this thread in the Vibrola section, too, as that would be a better place for technical help.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:18 am

I'm a little confused. You say the bridge is as low as it can go, but the tech says it's too high. Is the action so high the guitar is unplayable or just higher than you would like? Also, you don't actually say if there is a lot of relief in the neck. Measure the relief by capoing at the first fret and put your finger on the body fret, then check how high the string is around the eighth or ninth fret. You can also do this with a straight edge ruler. There really isn't anything too unconventional about a 360 setup, even with 12 strings, so I'm not sure where your tech is coming from on that issue.

From how you descibe it, your problem sounds like your neck has a forward pitch. However, on a 2009, 24 fret 360, that seems unlikely. But check the angle of the neck. it should be flat, completely parallel to the body. Like a Tele or a Strat, not pitched back like a Les Paul and it should definitely not pitch forward.

With problems like yours, pictures would be a great help.

teb · Post by **teb** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:15 pm

This is what a "properly buttered" Rickenbacker twelve looks like, and there is no reason to suspect that your guitar should be any different. Both of these have a reserve of around 1/4" more that the bridges could be lowered if needed. Assuming that you don't have some sort of structural problem, step #1 is most likely to work with the rods to gradually get the fingerboard back to flat and straight. Be very picky about who you take this guitar to for set-ups. It's not at all difficult for somebody with a good amount of experience with Rickenbackers, but it really seems to befuddle (and/or terrify) an awful lot of typical guitar techs.

sacakl · Post by **sacakl** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:49 pm

Thanks for all the advice. I'll post some pics tonight to show what I'm talking about. I'll also move this over to correct forum

The tech I took it to only quickly glanced at it and said "here's the problem -- your bridge is way too high" even though I think I have it at the lowest position where the 4 screws come loose. I'll post pics of the bridge to show.

I turned the truss rods another 1/4 turn last night and it feels a lot better. The action is lower without any fret buzz.

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:04 pm

A word of caution ....
Always a good idea to loosen up the string tension, before you raise or lower those Bridge height adjustment screws. A few of us have learned the hard way that the screws can strip out from the tension adjustments .....

sacakl · Post by **sacakl** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:58 pm

Finally, here are some pics from the headstock, the 12th fret, the 19th fret, and bridge. Not sure if this is normal but comments would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

teb · Post by **teb** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:47 pm

If your action is too high........then why are we seeing the bridge raised just as high on it's little leg-screws as it will possibly go? Tighten your bridge pickup screws (the middle ones on the pickup's sides, not the corner screws) to compress the foam pad some (lowering the pickup for more string clearance) and then try lowering the bridge with the bridge set screws. It just looks to me like your fingerboard is on one plane and the strings are pitched upward at the body end by the high bridge, yielding action that gets higher and higher as you move away from the nut. And level out the bridge in the process. Tilting it is likely to throw off your intonation.

sacakl · Post by **sacakl** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:30 am

Thanks teb. I tightened the middle screws on each side of the bridge pickup. The bridge....well something interesting happens. The manual says to turn the four screws counterclockwise to lower the bridge. If I turn them counterclockwise, they begin unscrew and the bridge does not move. If I go with my standard logic of "righty-tighty" the screws make a couple of rotations and stop but seems like the bridge goes up even more. Strings are loosened btw.

Which way should I be turning and are there other screws other than the 4 on the corners of the bridge I should be looking at to lower it? Are the 4 screws too tall and should they be replaced?

Thanks again.

teb · Post by **teb** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:28 am

They're normal threads, so turning the head counter-clockwise will lower the bridge (which you want) and turning them clockwise will raise the bridge (which you don't want). As mentioned, the threads strip fairly easily though, thus the suggestion to loosen the strings, and any used Rick comes with the possibility that somebody along the line didn't know this and stripped the threads. Check them and make sure that the screws actually move in and out when you turn them. Those four allen-head screws are all that's holding the bridge up and yours look normal.

I just thought of something..........What may be causing confusion if you have never completely disassembled one of these beasts is that it's not really what it looks like. You have a flat metal plate, screwed to the wooden top of the guitar and the bridge channel is suspended above that plate on the four little "screw-legs". BUT....the screw-legs are not screwed into the top or the plate. Their lower ends just sit in four small dents hammered into the plate. So as you tighten or loosen the screws, they don't go deeper, or less deep into the body. They stay in the same place, sitting in their dents on the plate, and the bridge channel simply climbs up and down on the screw threads. And that's how the bridge height changes. So as you "loosen" the four screws, you should start to see the bridge channel move downward, toward the plate and body. Once the bridge height is lowered to it's proper height, the bridge channel piece will probably be sitting about in the middle of the threaded portion of the four screws.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:48 pm

Once again, it looks like teb's solved the mystery. Just follow his instructions and you should be alright. Picture the bridge as a table and the 4 screws as the legs.

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:12 pm

Todd knows what he speaks of. It's pretty good advice. Well done, Todd.

sacakl · Post by **sacakl** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:26 pm

Thanks for the explanation teb! Especially the mechanics around the bridge since I wrongly assumed they were screwing into the wood. I decided the throw caution to the wind and take one screw counterclockwise despite the " loosening" and understood the concept. Took the other screw on that side of the bridge, now being suspended, and turned it counterclockwise to match.. Voila. Getting them level is a little tricky. I had oral surgery today so i've had to stop for the evening.

What's crazy is that I played a used Ric 370/12 at GC a few weeks ago and much the same problems existed -- it was almost painful to play and they were asking $2,200 for it.

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's help big-time! Great forum! Thanks again.

Aaron

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