325C Tailpiece configuration

brian · Post by **brian** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:14 am

I was wondering what people are planning to do or have done (if anything), with the tailpiece, on the 325C(s) they have bought. I guess there are a number of options.

a. leave it as is
b. imobilize it by hammering the rivet tighter
c. replace it with a bigsby
d. replace with a trapeze
e. replace with a vibrola
f. ?

I guess the color would also have an impact on the decision. As the configuration is as "Lennon purchased it (MG)", I would expect that might result in more MGs being left as is.

I have a JG I was planning on putting a Bigsby on, but I am not sure I want to make an irreversible mod to it.

emswife · Post by **emswife** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:40 am

Took the arm off the Kauffman... that's all I am doing as I don't want to make permanent modifications and ruin possible resale value.

Still thinking about trying to shop the 325 at the next guitar show for a 360... thinking...

lawton · Post by **lawton** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:22 pm

I've already gone with "D" (trapeze). I play the guitar "out" regularly and I need the guitar to be stable tuning-wise. I found that arm-less Kaufmann (is it "Kaufmann" or "Kauffman"?) wasn't very stable in that regard, and the spring -rattle was bothersome to me (only really audible to me, though).

To me the trapeze is a no-brainer, as it fits right onto the same end-piece bracket as the Vib-rola. I'm also thinking the trapeze is quite "vintage" and very "authentic." Lennon's 1964 Fireglo Rose Morris 325 and his 1964 325-12 both had trapeze tailpieces (making the trapeze twice as authentic as the B5, right?).

Mine is MG, btw.

rogerf · Post by **rogerf** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:15 am

I modded my Jetglow 325C58 to Sullivan specs with a Bigsby B5, bowtie bridge and Burns knobs. If I had a Natural 325C58 I would probably mod it with a Bigsby B5, bowtie bridge, and either Hofner knobs or the radio knobs (if I could find them).

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:57 am

Roger: Please take a few moments and let us know how the Bigsby B5 functions with your 325C58 and how often you use the vibrato feature?

mike_d · Post by **mike_d** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:41 am

Just a minor correction, Lennon's 325 Fireglo Rose Morris "Beatle Backer" had an Accent Vibrola not a trapeze..

I had a trapeze on my 325c58 for a short period before I had my bigsby installed. The trapeze was an improvement over the Kaufmann, most definitely. However, i still had a lot of rattle from the roller bridge saddles. I get better results from the bowtie bridge and bigsby b5.
http://home.austin.rr.com/rickenbacker/bigsby2.jpg

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:26 am

Mike: Please explain what you mean by better results. Do you use the vibrato feature at all and if so does it work effectively. That is after you use it do the strings return to pitch without problem.

mike_d · Post by **mike_d** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:43 am

Sure thing Peter. The guitar would easily go out of tune with the Kaufmann, even if you just hit it by accident while strumming. Also, the roller saddles rattled like crazy and made a buzzing sound, even when I used the trapeze instead of the Kaufmann. The Bigsby and bowtie combo is the most stable. There's nothing in the bridge that rattles now since the bowtie replaced all of the roller saddles.

Now, I don't use the Bigsby very much at all. If I actually use the Bigsby with any gusto, it will go out of tune. With light or moderate use, it stays in tune pretty well. I'm using Pyramid 13's, btw. I love it. It's a great guitar.
Here's photos of the various incarnations:
http://home.austin.rr.com/rickenbacker/325c581.jpg
http://home.austin.rr.com/rickenbacker/oct_2002.jpg
http://home.austin.rr.com/rickenbacker/bigsby2.jpg

rogerf · Post by **rogerf** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:15 am

Sure, Peter. I think the B5 functions very well with my C58. The biggest difference is that it makes playing easier because I can swing the arm out of the way. Also, as it is mounted directly to the top of the guitar, I think it alters the tone with both additive and subtractive elements. The large aluminum unit must inhibit some top vibration, but at the same time it must also transfer more string vibration to the wood. I have only used the vibrato feature one time - and that was after I installed the tailpiece to make sure that it was mounted soundly to the body.

ibmindless · Post by **ibmindless** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:01 pm

To respond to the original question, I intend to leave the Kauffman as it is - completely original. I have absolutely no issues with maintaining the tuning. I used the Kauffman a few times, but I really have no use for it, so I removed the arm.

I have to add, I have no intention to change anything on this beautiful guitar. Considering all of the work & research that John Hall, et al went into, I'm very satisified that it accurately represents a piece of Beatles and Rickenbacker history.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:45 pm

Thanks Mike and Roger. I appreciate your comments and it is interesting to consider the difference in tonality between the different vibratos.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:01 pm

Just an added note to the above. I also replaced the Kaufman with a a B5. One very notable difference is the guitar stays in tune better. I also replaced the knobs with Burns, but no bowtie. I haven't decided exactly what I am going to do with area on the tailpeice where I but the Bigsby on. Got four holes there, minor but there, any suggestions?

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:57 pm

I'm no expert, but I suspect lennon didn't fill the holes. So holes = Lennon authentic re-creation !

mike_d · Post by **mike_d** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:02 am

I saw somebody else's 325c58 recently and he added a bigsby, but he also modified the bottom kaufmann/trapeze bracket. he cut off the the connecting hooks , shaped the edgeds and simply left the bottom metal plate in place with the screws and everything. Wish i would have thought of that before I sold the kaufmann off.

scoobster28 · Post by **scoobster28** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:40 am

Mike,
Couldn't you just order another trapieze tailpiece bracket and do the same thing? They surely cost less than the money you recieved for the Kaufmann, and I have read that they are the same bracket, size wise and such.